Monday, 16 December 2013


We asked you:

Should MPs get a pay rise?

The choices were and the voting was as follows:
No:  143 votes (90%)
Yes, 11% is about right: 3 (1%)
Yes, but less than 11%: 11 (6%)
Yes, more than 11%: 5 (3%)

A total of 158 people voted (which is odd, because if you add the totals up, 143 + 3 + 11 + 5 = 162)

So blogger has messed up the arithmetic somewhere along the way.

But Ok, we will assume that 162 people voted and that the percentages (which also look a little strange [if 3 =1%, then 5 should not be 3%, and 11 should not be 6%]) are rounded up or down.

I doubt that anyone would be particularly surprised that 90% voted against any pay rise at all, when almost no one else is. If there is any surprise it will be that as many as 10% seem happy to give them a rise at all. 11 people thought that they should get a rise, but not as much as 11%.

It was impossible within the confines of the template to ask how much people thought the rise should be, but if anyone voted for this, maybe they could make a comment below as to what they would think was reasonable.

The fact that 5% thought that they should get more than the 11% they have been rewarded mystified me, but Munguin concluded that we must have at least 5 Tory MPs as readers. Welcome, Gideon, if you are lurking there!

We’d likewise be delighted to hear from them, honourable members or not, for clarification of how much they think the rise should be, and perhaps they could add a bit about why they feel that MPs alone should be entitled to a massive rise when such austerity is being forced upon other people.

Thanks very much to everyone who took part. I look forward to your comments, including which charities you would like to see benefit from the Uk's largess towards her majesty's honourable members.


  1. Tris those pictures are brilliant! Makes you hungry and sick to the stomach all at the same time.

    Especially liked your currency conversion from juicy MP food subsidy into required hours to be worked by taxpaying minimum wager. Genius!


    1. Can't claim credit for doing the pics myself Braco. I just searched for them on the net. :¬]

      Some news which I just found ...

      MPs who have admitted that they need, want or will accept the pay rise.

      Charles Walker (Conservative)
      Brian Donohoe (Labour)
      Nadine Dorries (Conservative)
      Mark Field (Conservative)
      Robert Buckland (Conservative)

      MPs who have backed a rise before 11% figure was announced:

      Peter Bottomley (Conservative)

  2. I'm still convinced that MPs should get either the median or mode average national wage, and no expense claims.

    Maybe then we'd get people who actually want to do the job, rather than the current rack of troughers.

    Honest Question: When we go independant, who should I yell at about that for MSPs?

    1. I wouldn't take away reasonable expenses. I don't think you can expect people to pay for two homes and travel between London and say Glasgow out of their salary; they also need staff.

      All I want to see is they should be treated like other people. I worked for the DWP for a short period. We were badly paid, expected to work hard and our expenses were absolutely pared to the minimum. I don't see why MPs should not have the same conditions.

      I think in an independent Scotland, the person to approach would be the Presiding Officer of Holyrood.

    2. I think that's SSP policy for all their elected representatives (if they had any). I know they followed that line during their electorally successful hayday, pre Sheridan fall.

      Other than that, all we can hope for is a properly responsive and representative constitutional convention to be set up post YES vote.

      Hopefully the newly politicised, roused for the referendum, will not all simply melt away again but instead start organised agitation for exactly that. That would be my plan anyway.

      My preference would be for a larger Parliament selected by lottery. Let statistical chance ensure proper representative government, with the normal citizen's views being heard instead of assorted lawyers, millionaires and professional machine politicians.

      If it's good enough for Juries deciding on taking away an individuals personal freedoms for life, then surely it's good enough to decide on child care provision or warship procurement.

      At the very least it should be used for the formation of a second reviewing chamber!

      I have now got off my hobby horse and started to drink my milk.


    3. There's a lot to be said for the lottery. In fact we were discussing this only today.

      It sounds fantastical, but we use it for juries. Of course, people would have to want to be there... otherwise you get spiteful legislation, although heaven knows you get that from Tories now!

    4. Yes Tris, but if we paid the 'jurors' what msp's get just now, and they sat for say 4 or 5 years, that would be the equivalent of winning the lottery for your averagely paid worker or unemployed Scot.

      The positions would become seriously coveted, both financially and for it's status, not to mention the effect it would have on dispersing power down throughout all Scotland's communities. Just think of the new networks that would form between previously segregated social strata.

      I did a wee diagram last year of how I saw a Juror centered (as simple YES or NO final decision maker) Scottish government could be organised.

      It's a subject I would dearly love to see being addressed by a constitutional convention post Indy, but I am pretty sure the concept is just too radical to get any real consideration.

      Which is a real shame, because it really does stand up to close scrutiny. Maybe introducing the system to form a proper revising second chamber could be a reasonable starting point though. Who knows, we can but hope eh?

      With lower and lower voter turnouts and a tighter and tighter pool from which our party politicians are self selecting from, I fear Holyrood will become just a wee bit better and more modern version of the failed Westminster model we are trying so hard to rid ourselves of.

      Told you it was a hobby horse. (wink) Sorry


    5. That seems interesting.

      There are a few questions I can see from a quick glance.

      Power to deal with emergencies (outwith manifestos' content)

      Who would appoint people to take responsibility for departments *health, education...etc)

      I propose you write something, detailing it all ... and we'll put it up as a guest post and everyone can have a comment on it...

      I'll keep the flow chart and put it on the article...

      What you think?

    6. That's very kind of you but do you not think it would just bore the natives? Me and four or five other regular posters on Wings came up with various ideas over on the quarantine thread, for that very reason.

      I seemed to be the one that took it the most seriously though. I intended to write it up at some point and see if Wings would publish it, but never got around to it.

      Your offer and this conversation has definately got me thinking about it again though.


    7. Bore them... after some of the guff I put up... You have to be joking. The poor buggers are inured to boredom.

      I mean don't make it like 20 pages long or anything (they have short attentions spans, specially Niko), but yeah give it a go, and email it to

      trispw@gmail and I'll put it up.


    8. Tris, that's a very kind offer. I am getting ready to return to Scotland in January in order to campaign full time, so it's all a bit hectic over here at the moment. However, as this period is probably the last chance I will have to be on the web as often as I am, I think I will definitely try to take advantage of your generosity and do my best to get a wee article done.

      With only 9 or 10 months until the referendum it's probably the last time we can afford to have a good look up, and think about the more esoteric possibilities of sovereignty, rather than just the hard necessities of having to focus on the fire fighting and practicalities of actually winning this bloody thing.

      I can't see me getting a chance to contemplate radical new forms of Government for an Indy Scotland while licking stamps and trecking up and down tower blocks delivering leaflets either, so maybe this is a good time to be putting down a wee marker. Nice to get folk thinking about the topic anyway.

      Not sure how long it will take, but I will email you it and then you can decide if it's worth publishing or not.

      Thanks again Tris.


  3. Tris, is that not just termed 'found art'. Full marks from me anyway and hopefully the basis of a great leaflet campaign for a YES vote and against the Westminster so called 'status quo'.

    Had a look at Mr Donohoe's wicky page. As a lifelong Trades Unionist, I suppose he would find it almost impossible to vote against improvement in the diabolical pay and conditions that the lowly elected parliamentary 'worker' has to struggle under these days.

    It's obviously a matter of deeply held personal principle, so you and the rest of your cybernat tartan tories can snipe as much as you like. He will not abandon his Trades Unionist roots. This is all about solidarity with the working man, especially during such obviously 'difficult' times.

    You, as a cybernasty just can't understand that kind of 'solidarity' though, can you? Too busy betraying Britain! Just ask Niko to explain it all again for you Tris, maybe eventually it will sink in.


    1. I guess I own up to being a bit thick, but I was labouring (if you'll pardon the world) under the impression that somehow things might get better in an independent little country, like all the other independent little countries in the north of Europe. Silly old me, huh!

      Don't worry, I recently called openly for the overthrow of Her Majesty the Queen...on the Guardian site and then on Sct Goes Pop. Doubtless it will not be long before I am in the tower in the imperial capital... and of no further embarrassment to this great country of ours....

  4. Give them a microwave and hospital rations they can then gorge themselves at the weekends using their own money.

  5. Umm master-stroke giving uk sportsman of the year to the
    Scottish unionist Andy Murray. just shows the Scottish people
    what accolades and honours they will be losing if they let the snp
    bamboozle them into a disastrous yes vote.

    1. Nikostratos,
      I am trying to pick an fight with you (morally speaking) on the previous thread. Fancy stepping outside and defending yourself?


  6. I've always said a block of flats close to parliament, comfortable, compact "bijou" if you want. Functional certainly.

    Basic furnishings, and a small allowance to bring in personal things/ decorate modestly in colour choices.

    MPs must realise that they are public servants. The ruler is the monarchy.

    1. Goodness, yes, Niko.

      I wouldn't put them past it, although, having won Wimbledon, he probably is the sportsman of the year.

      But now, of course it has completely taken the wind out of the nat sails. Sod the starving and the homeless. A VERY rich blokey who plays tennis really well has been given an award.

    2. Watch out for Taz Braco... Even if Niko's a bit of a wimp, Taz is vicious, and for all Niko's faults, Taz loves him. Odd that!