Alex Salmond: "Our vision of an independent Scotland is one of a country engaging fully with the EU and the broader international community, co-operating closely with our friends and neighbours in the UK".
Jackie Baillie: “He should spend less time telling us why he hates the UK and more time being honest about the consequences of separation. Maybe if the first minister had credible answers about what would replace the pound, how our pensions would be paid and what would happen to the funding for our schools and hospitals if we left the UK, his separatist campaign wouldn't be trailing so badly in the polls.”
|Aye shut yer ears Jackie, and put your ear plugs in.|
You could be all three wise monkeys if it were not for all the evil
that spews from your mouth.
Heaven give me strength.
OK Jackie. Mr Salmond is sick to the back teeth of having to explain this to slow learning MSPs...so I'll do it for him.
It's very simple. What will replace the pound is, er, the pound.
Cabinet ministers from the London government have admitted it would be economic madness not to share the currency from the point of view of English business if for nothing else. The governor of the bank of England has said he can make it work, but that the decision must be made by politicians.
In any case, economists have pointed out that we can use the pound whether the UK likes it or not. With their approval, we help pay off their massive debt; without it, we don’t.
How will our pensions be paid, Jackie? Well, once again, the British government has explained this when your attention was wandering. They have said that it is responsible for pension for everyone who has paid into the system (that's National INSURANCE for you; you pay in all your life, then you get something back, not much I agree, but something).
It has been said by ministers in the UK parliament.
It has been written by the DWP (the DWP for heaven’s sake) in letters to people who have asked what would happen to their pensions.
|Evil place, full of hatred|
From the minute we are independent our own government will be responsible for collecting taxes to pay pensions. Just like other countries do.
How would we fund our schools, etc? We would fund our schools and our hospitals and all the other things that we have to fund in the same way that every other country does.
I mean seriously, have you travelled, Jackie?
Have to been to Iceland, for example? Tiny place: population of Edinburgh. They have schools. Yes, they do. They have universities too. Their people are highly educated, for free. Even the right wing parties in Iceland laugh out loud at the idea that in a modern technological age people would have to pay fees to go to school and college. Most Icelanders speak 3 languages, some a deal more.
Have to been to Luxembourg? Tiny place: population of Edinburgh. They have a highly educated workforce and a brilliant health system. Their kids have to learn three languages just to live in their tiny country. And then they usually learn English on top.
|Oh look, a small northern independent country that has buildings|
University of Iceland
They have schools and hospitals and social security and all sort sf other things in other countries in Europe. Somehow, although it may be a mystery to you, they manage without the UK to show them how. It seems to me that Scots might be able to manage that themselves... you know, if Latvians and Italians and Danes can manage it, why not us. We aren't a sub-species.
Seriously Jackie. There are two possibilities. Either you are plain thick and you haven't understood all the answers that have been given and given and given again… or you are being deliberately obtuse and lying for Ed and David and now Nigel. You guys just love the the comfortable position that you are in any the likelihood of an aristocratic title at the end of a trough swilling career.
I hate to tell you, but in the eyes of “ordinary people” you don’t have a reputation for being particularly thick, so I guess… it seems like the second.
But while we have your attention, can we have an answer from you?
You've been asked this over and over again but you've never come up with a good answer.
Why is it that you support the spending of £100 billion on mass killing machines to be stationed near Scotland’s largest city, when Scots’ share of that money could abolish child poverty and starvation within a few months, close soup kitchens and give people a new start?
Surely it's not because you relish the idea that one day one of your mates will get an instruction from the USA to kill millions of people in Moscow?
If you won’t answer we must assume that in your book having “clout” is more important than miserable kids living in abject poverty. You and Mr Cameron. Two disgusting peas in a disgusting pod.
I gave up on Baillie a long time ago, I used to think that women had a natural inclination to care and protect. Fight against things like poverty to ensure that all children got the best chance in life, women would go hungry to make sure their kids and all kids were fed. In the Baillie's, Lamont's and Currans case that is just not true, if there were ever three more loathsome creatures in Scottish Labour I am yet to come across them. Bad enough that they lie, are thick, but the don't care part is the real insult.
I have been thinking about UKip getting a seat in Scotland and the fact that it would appear that a lot of Labour followers in the central belt decided to vote tactically for them to keep the SNP out. Now this is a height of stupidity that no's no bounds and shows that Labour followers actually have no idea about politics at all but it might actually be a blessing.
The no side embracing UKip will back fire, UKip might just get a couple of seats in England which makes the Tories more likely to win in 2015. No matter what Labour do Miliband, Balls, Alexander etc. are just not liked at all and people down south will vote tory in ever increasing numbers because they don't see Labour as a government, neither do I to be honest. This will push no voters to yes so I really hope the Baillie's and Currans of the world keep spouting off as it keeps it in everyones mind that they are now a neo con right wing party and they will go even further to the right as the year goes on. I really suspect they will regret the day they embraced UKip, Murdo Fraser is really helping as well. So while not good that UKip got a seat I bet AS and the SNP/YES will be secretly delighted as I suspect it was all part of AS plan. He isn't the best politician in the UK for nothing and he hasn't even started campaigning yet.
Just a thought.
I think some people are genuinely sickened by the support from some Labour and Tory people for a bunch of racist,sexist, neanderthals.Delete
The fool they elected in Scotland doesn't even know what he's going to do in Brussels. He never expected anyone to ask him.
I imagine what he will do most of the time is sit in a pub and drink with his boozing mates.
Great job on £83,000.
It's brought some people into YES...
I think they won;t do much at the election, but that doesn't matter. They will have pushed the Tories and labour to the right...as if they needed any pushing.
I see that Red Ed has reached out to UKIPDelete
We gotta get out of this place.
Well, I suppose it was going to happen.
I wouldn't like to be a foreigner in England.
So we ask why after the years the snp have been in Government they couldReplyDelete
not help the child in the pic..after all if they were to take the cash from the council tax freeze they gave to the wealthy in Scottish society.
it would be possible to hep that child but the snp choose to allow the child to suffer
and in fact collude in making it that way.
So the snp can parade a poor defenseless child in front on the Scots saying
it wuz the English that dun it.
when in fact the snp have let that child down and the truth is they and the nats
could give a toss for him other that to use as a propaganda tool.
seems to me you nats have ukip stuck right in your craw and cant stop scratching it ........you just cant leave it alone can ya ???
Who controls who gets social security money?
Who controls how much people get taxed?
Who decides how much money the Scottish parliment can have?
Really Niko? You used to do better than this.
It might be worth your while to visit Scotland and find out for yourself what is going on in this country. I understand it can't be easy finding out details from afar, but just some points of correction to help you try to comprehend:
Taxation is controlled from London;
Social security is controlled from London;
Scotland's budget is controlled from London.
On the subject of child poverty, 32 Labour MPs voted in favour of a Social Security spending cap. Save the Children estimate an additional 100,000 children will be put into poverty as a direct result in the first year. (Check their website).
At present 10 Westminster constituencies have more than 1 child in 4 living in poverty. The Labour MPs representing 9 of them voted in support of Ian Duncan Smith's spending cap, namely: Willie Bain, Anas Sarwar, Margaret Curran, John Robertson, Ian Davidson, Ann McKechin, Lindsay Roy, Tom Harris and Gemma Doyle. The SNP MP representing the 8th worst constituency (Stewart Hosie of Dundee West) voted against.
Come back and visit Scotland sometime and see for yourself.
to thin to thin ..........the snp have it their remit to help any scot
financially if they want to ( they dont well unless its themselves )
and now you can and show me any Westminster law. which states the
Scottish Parliament is unable to organize their budget to aid any Scots
Must admit your laying child poverty at the door of the Labour party
is well just risible but then your are a nat
you could read this but as a extremist Nat you wont as it challenges
your limited nationalist version of reality
calling London control ! London control ! London control !
you gotta laff....London control ! i mean they got meta chips
inserted in our heads and run us from a central location in London
Actually, I was a Labour voter but not a member until late March. I stuck with them until the vote on the spending cap but that was the last straw. Since then, I have had my eyes open and there will be no going back until after independence if Labour can reform. I've learned a lot in 2 months.Delete
Also, it might be good to post when fully sober.Delete
It's a good idea to post comments when sober.Delete
You might ask why after 13 years in government, as chancellor and prime minister Gordon brown's legacy is a bigger gap between rich and poor; the lowest pensions in the Western world, ATOS, bedroom taxes and no spare houses of the right size.Delete
Where in the name of heavens was his moral compass?
The current government has helped the poor as you know, but it has to take the money from somewhere else to do it, because the UK won't give us our own taxes back.
They use them for bombs and English sewers and high speed trains between London and Leeds.
Are you saying that the DWP is lying when it said pensions will be paid as normal?
I know they are liars and cheats there... the bloke at the to could probably beat Baillie when it comes to mendacity, but it's in letters all over the country and it's in hansard.
You might not have noticed it because the unionist press didn't bother reporting it.
Hmmmm ... that's good advice Iain.Delete
Thing is this is Niko when he's sober.
Can you imagine him when he's had a few?
Seriously Jackie. There are two possibilities. Either you are plain thick and you haven't understood all the answers that have been given and given and given again… or you are being deliberately obtuse and lying for Ed and David and now Nigel.ReplyDelete
It won't matter how many times she gets an answer she'll keep asking because she's not interested in the answers because it's a campaign tactic.
Keep asking the same questions over and over even if they've been answered to try and make the electorate believe that they haven't.
Aye I know Doug. Her hobby is telling nasty lies about Alex Salmond and the SNP.Delete
She's a low grade politician in a reasonably high grade job.
Just not up to it.
Hell you could write the answers down on sheets of paper, make her sit down and read said sheets of paper out loud, whilst being videoed, and then ask her if she had read the sheets to which she'd deny ever doing so. Even if you showed her the video evidence she'd still deny everything. DOH!ReplyDelete
Jeez you could give her a blank sheet of WHITE paper and she'd tell you it was BLACK!
Seems to me that that is her reputation.Delete
But her boss is like that too.
She seems to think if you tell a lie often enough, it becomes the truth.
She must have read George Orwell.
Tris, Jackie Baillie simply isn't able to operate on a theoretical or philosophical level about politics or society in general. When devolution was delivered by Labour, it was to be an expanded version of Strathclyde Regional Council full of people who would possibly make perfectly adequate local councillors. Dewar and McConnell did their best to live down to those expectations but for the past seven years the Government has been behaving as though Holyrood is actually a national Parliament. Jackie Baillie and so many of her unionist colleagues are way out of their depth. They are local representatives and not national legislators. After independence, it would be kinder of the Labour Party to ask the likes of Baillie, Lamont and the rest to return to their council roles. New talented people might well reinvigorate Labour from the ranks of LfI, but to expect poor souls like Holyrood's leading Labour figures to step up to the mark is being unrealistic. It's not that I'm making excuses for her: if she had an degree of self-awareness she, like her group leader, would be aware they are not up to the job.ReplyDelete
Absolutely bang on there Iain.Delete
They are junior councillor level. Not even convenors.
They have no political skills; no intellectual rigour and very little personality.
Labour sends it proper politicians to London where the big trough is.
Frankly I'd be worried if that lot were running Dundee City Council. I doubt very much any of them will ever run the country.
They would have to be rescued.
I'm 66 and in receipt of State pension. Till the day I die the rUK will pay this money. If the Scottish State pension is higher than the rUK State pension the SG will make up the difference. Scots will therefore not lose out with independence. At the moment if you live outside of the British Isles, the UK pay your pension in whatever 'foreign country you happen to reside. Scotland will be a foreign country after Independence therefore you will receive your pension from the UK as others do at the moment.ReplyDelete
What is it that people don't understand?
Baillie is a fat, lying bitch.
From an early age I've always considered that someone who constantly smiles no matter what anyone says to them, is deranged. Baillie is guilty of this social malformation. It will take a Team of undertakers to remove her smile when she passes beyond the veil.
Perhaps when we vote 'Yes' she'll be glum, but I doubt it. Watch her when the FM gives her a public kicking at question time and you'll see what I mean.
it is not uprated and does not include any other benefits paid in the ukDelete
plus a Salmond promise is not binding on a future Scottish parliament
It is and I was talking purely about the State pension. Even if it weren't uprated, the difference would be paid in full by a Scottish Government of whatever persuasion. I am more certain of that, than any threat or promise emanating from perfidious Albion. As has been said elsewhere our Welfare system would be funded from the Scottish taxation system.Delete
Nothing appears to be binding on the Unionist Parties when they present their manifestos to the electorate. As soon as the election is over and done they conveniently forget what they promised. The SG are liked by the Scottish because they tend to produce what was promised in their election manifesto particularly as regards holding a Referendum this year.
Salmond and his Party are much admired in the rest of the UK. Don't believe what you read in the Unionist MSM .
Yet you expect us to vote 'No'? You really must think we're all simple in Scotland. Let me me tell you we aren't
Put a sock in it mate.
The English and Scottish governments have said that the pensions will be paid in full.
Thanks again for reminding me about that disgusting liar of a woman. I put her at the top of my "no chance for team Scotland" The vile women of labour are the most two faced hypocrites ever. They cannot be allowed to have any part in an indi Scots govt. And Niko how the hell you can state what so say is beyond me. But you don't live here so no vote, thank god .ReplyDelete
If you lived here you would see the SNP have run the country well considering the constraints. I am no SNP voter but they have done a great job. Labour on the other hand have blocked every attempt to ease poverty , bedroom taxes and they have belittled this country to all and sundry. Never giving a straight answer and blaming A. Salmond for everything . They are Scotlands shame. They have destroyed SLAB . Shown they can be as bad as the tory's and along with the LibDems will soon be consigned to history.
Roll on Sept 18th . We know where the Uk is going and Scotland has a different road to take .
' I am no SNP voter ' yeah we believe you we really do .
Not nice to call people liars, Niko. You can't possibly know how yesguy voted.Delete
ILying seems the default position on the no side.ReplyDelete
Talking of lying where is Braveheart hiding these days?
The lies are a bit insulting I think.Delete
It's like they think that universities and bodies of learned people won't contradict them when they lie about the content of a report.
These people are far too used to getting their own way.
Craig Murray wrote on this subject too.
As he points out, the money will be spent in Scotland, creating masses of jobs that we previously helped to fund in England,.
But this time it will be spent in Scottish shops. On Scottish Houses. In Scottish pubs and restaurants.
And we can stop paying taxes so that we can have a share of their DWP; FO...etc etc.
The problem is though tris tha a large part of the public believe if it comes from the treasury it must be true.Delete
Data on cost of Scots government ‘misleading’
So this is the British treasury deliberately lying for political ends and the same as they did over the currency union and where is our MSM lying in bed with them subverting democracy. That is Totalitarianism nothing less.
I hope they know that lying probably won't work. And if they win this on the strength of the lies, there are going to be so many bridges to rebuild and as it all comes out...Delete
What a mess they are making.
When Niko eventually flees to Cyprus, i'm going to buy a house next door to him, and paint it as a giant Union flag.ReplyDelete
I will give it rent free to the Orange Order, so they can use it for holidays, and keep Niko company. On alternative weeks, I will give it rent free,to single mothers, gay folk, poor children and folk of 'colour', so he can have a good moan to his OO friends the following week.
You mean Taz?
Labour have no intention of easing poverty.They need poverty.When people start to improve their standard of living, they stop voting for Labour, so it's in the Labour Party's interest to keep them poor.I live near Springburn one of the strongest Labour areas in Scotland.It breaks my heart to drive through there, because it's so depressing, so I try to avoid it.
They have returned a Labour mp for more than eighty years I believe. The last one was Michael Martin, now snugly (smugly?) settled into the great retirement home by the Thames.Michael Martin, millionaire and lord.The Labour party looks after the Labour party, and they don't give a damn about the people who elect them. Their only purpose is to elect Labour mp's, nothing else.
Totally agree (although I'd say there have been some good people in labour over the years).Delete
But for a party which set out to remove the house of lords over 100 years ago, they really seem to do rather well out of its bounty.
Martin, Robertson, ffoulkes, Liddell, O'Connell...
I suppose they have decided that it you can't beat them, join them.
I'm a socialist. I'd not vote for the current Labour party in 100 years. They are a bunch of bloated capitalists with their dirty snouts in the aristocratic trough.
To hell with them.
I accept the Tories and Ukip being a bunch of out of touch tossers who care only about themselves and their class. The likes of Cameron and Clegg, Rees-Mogg and Gidiot... all from posh boys' schools and the most expensive unis; the best qualifications money can buy... why would they know anything about life outside of the ancestral estate? The only poor people they ever met were the butler, the footman, the gardens, the chauffeur and the maids .
But Labour.... Yuck, make me sick.
One of my big hopes for an independent Scotland is that we will have true socialist. People like Jimmy Reid. People who will work to rebuild Scotland, not their ducal homes.
Jackie Baillie is what is technically called a CRAFT personReplyDelete
Can't Remember A Fucking Thing.
She could certainly spread over a large area.Delete
LOL...you guys are hilariousDelete
I listened to this woman at Kircauldy, she was more interested in the Buns than peoples opinion.................ReplyDelete
I hear she had a lovely lunch with the Cowal Conservative Ladies' Lunch Club recently, where she was guest speaker and doubtless feeling perfectly at home in agreeable surroundings with like-minded right wing people.Delete
A Labour councillor at an election meeting in Dundee in the 1990s quite honestly said "We can't give them too much or they might stop voting for us" when asked about the terrible conditions in some housing schemes. He didn't see any problem with his answer.
I think, John that she couldnt care less about people's opinion, as long as she gets her way (and a few buns...although I like a bun or two myself!!)Delete
I just about fell away when I heard that she was guest speaker at the Conservative Ladies Lunch Club, Danny!Delete
As you say, she'd fit in perfectly. They could discuss how mush more money they are going to spend on nuclear weapons; how many countries they want to go to war with (as soon as Mr Obama tells them to) and how much they can cut from the Social Security budget wasted on these good for nothing skivers.
Soon she can go and talk to the Ukip wives luncheon club. Only they probably eat roasted poor person and boiled foreigner, with a dish of sauté gay lad for pudding.
Le's get serious for a minute. I cannot believe that I am the only one on here who thinks that M/s Baillie is incredibly sexy in the Bessie Braddock mould?ReplyDelete
If the Treasury can take the piss I don't see why I should not join in.
Niko, every time you post you confirm my original impression that you are stark, raving, howling at the moon, mad as a hatter.
John, the happy to be, malcontent.
We like it when you get serious, John the Malcontent.Delete
Even Munguin sits up and takes notice.
In answer to your points:
1. Believe it.
2. I doubt if even you could rise (?) to the levels (sink to the same depths) as the Treasury of the Uk when it comes to taking the piss. Seriously, broad shoulders are not the way I would describe a total combined debt over over three trillion pounds. But that is what they want us to believe. Compared with that you are, I'm afraid to say, matey, a rank amateur.
3. Yep, you're dead right there. Completely and utterly batshit mad.
Doesn't make me a bad person
NO Niko... you're not a bad person, and despite everything we love you.Delete
It's not easy though...
Labour councillors are by far the worst curse ever visited on Scotland, they destroyed this country with their incompetence, cronyism and utter failure to address root problems in the areas they themselves blighted. Deliberate social engineering on their part to ensure their fiefdom continued. Baillie is of that ill and worse, she is also a lying publicity seeker and shameful with it. Everything about her is insincere and duplicitous..we need to rid civic life of all of them or we have no chance of returning Scotland to glory and being a beautiful country again. They ruined it and will continue to ruin it.ReplyDelete
I pretty much agree with that.Delete
Although I doubt we'll ever rid the country of their councillors. Even when Labour was a pretty honourable organisation with good men and women in parliament; people who actually believed in the principles of Labour and socialism, there will thousands of councillors all over the country who were lazy, incompetent, and corrupt.
But we should be able to get the worst of them out of parliament once we are independent, and going to London is the ambition.
Hopefully the worst of the Britnats will move home to England and seek their troughing future in the houses of piggery, just as they do at the moment.
They will be no loss. I'd not care if I never saw the likes of them again. the UK will be welcome to them, and they will fit in well with the rest of the troughers.
Thank you for the reply Tris. I study Scottish history and when you see the destruction of Scotland's built environment and industries largely at the hands of greedy, politically motivated councillors, it hard to have any faith in the Labour party whatsoever, given it is largely a party of councillors rising on the make. The destruction of possibly the finest towns and cities in Europe at their hands is enough to drive even the most placid of people to anger and especially as it is obvious it was done through political idealogical hate, mixed with cronyism and a deliberate attempt to create social unrest and to provide themselves with voting fodder. I cannot express this strongly enough. Add to thus the utter contempt our ruling masters in Westmonster have for this country and its separate culture it is no wonder Scotland has fallen from the heights of success and from bring one of the richest nations to one struggling between two stools. I fervently hope a new Scotland rids itself of the class chips and rediscovers what it is to be Scottish and proud of what it can do again.ReplyDelete
Yes, some of the stuff they knocked down can never be replaced. The destruction of Dundee's Overgate, for example, was a crime.Delete
It can never be undone.
And most of it was done to make money for certain people and their friends.