Tuesday 3 June 2014


iScotland would have to "queue up" to join the EU, he said, for some strange reason, while he was campaigning in the Newark by-election in England. They care in Newark?

He also said he was disappointed that Scottish people living in the rest of the UK would not be able to vote in September's independence referendum. Although, as the referendum, by UK law, had to get the permission of the UK government to take place, and was the joint responsibility of the UK and Scottish governments in its range and methodology, it seems strange to bring this up now and not before the Edinburgh Agreement was signed. Of course it would have been almost impossible to ascertain who would have been eligible to vote, and that is why it was not seriously considered. But people like Cameron never let the truth get in the way of creating bitterness when it suits their own political ends. 

He said: "If Scotland vote for independence they are no longer members of the EU and it's become clearer and clearer since this campaign started that they would have to reapply to join the EU and as such, as an independent country, they would have to queue up as it were behind other countries - for instance those in the western Balkans that are already on the path towards membership”.

Well that’s, at best, conjecture, and at worst, lies. He must be the only person in the world who seriously believes that an expansionist organisation like the EU would disfranchise Scottish citizens, take away their passports, driving licences, and all their rights as European citizens, at the same time as removing all the rights a privileges of other EU states’ citizens to live, study, work in Scotland, and put them on hold so that countries like Montenegro and Macedonia could take precedence over them.

The scenario is too ridiculous to imagine. All EU students at Scottish Universities would immediately be obliged to either return home in the middle of their courses, or to pay steep fees for the rest of their education. All fishing in Scottish waters would stop; all projects being funded by the EU would immediately have no cash; Scottish people living overseas would become aliens in their new countries, as would all the Europeans working here. And for what?

 Scotland, as a current member of the UK, and therefore the EU, meets all the criteria of being a member of the EU. Why would they queue behind countries which are working to bring their finances, human right, etc, etc, into line with Europe, possibly taking decades to do so?

No one is suggesting it would be an overnight rubber stamping. A new country would most likely have to negotiate terms, and no one really expects that any of the opt outs, or penalties for these opt outs, currently enjoyed or paid by the UK would necessarily continue. But most intelligent and educated estimates are that, within a period of 18 months, these issues could easily be resolved. East German territories and citizens, after all, became a member overnight when accepted into reunified Germany.

On the other hand, when Greenland obtained the power from Denmark to make its own decisions on these matters, and decided to withdraw from the EU, it took it 2 years for the EU to reluctantly let it go.

Of course Mr Cameron could have sorted this uncertainty long ago. It is in his hands to ask the EU for a judgement on Scotland’s position. Mr Salmond has asked him to do this. He has refused. He prefers to be able to play on fear. That is the kind of Prime Minister that Scotland has. One who appears to be at war with the country. In short, an enemy. 

Needless to say Cameron continued with the usual tired old dross about hoping the Scottish people will vote to remain in the United Kingdom because we're a successful family of nations, all bringing something to this United Kingdom.  But I refer you, and him, to the video in a previous Munguin post.

For someone campaigning in an English by-election with absolutely no connection to Scotland he made a great deal of independence. You began to wonder if he hadn’t lost the plot as he rambled on about risks outside the UK. Not being able keep the pound (lie), outside the UK you wouldn't have such a strong economy with so many jobs…(another lie, as the economy in London and Oxford is entirely different from anywhere in Scotland… and the unemployment figures on a country wide basis being better in Scotland than in England). Then there was the ever reliable “banks” tale. The British taxpayer saved the Scottish banks. Except that that’s a lie too. The actual losses from banks (which might have had Scotland in their titles, but are based in, and regulated by London) in Scotland was tiny. The Scottish liability could easily have been paid. The massive losses came in London and in the USA. And the USA liabilities were, by law, paid by the USA government. 

It seems to me that if you have to rely on lies for ALL your arguments, you actually don’t have anything. Cameron must be thanking his lucky stars for a compliant press and a BBC that desperately needs his English Culture Secretary to raise the licence tax.

In conclusion with sickening predictability he said: “I think the UK has been a great success story”.

Tell that to people on the receiving end of Iain Duncan Smith’s Department of Wickedness and Purgatory (DWP). Tell that to all the people forced to live on the lowest comparative minimum wage and the lowest pension in Europe. Tell that to people paying the highest fares for the worst trains in Europe, or the most money for the smallest houses, the most expensive petrol, cars, furniture etc… The list is endless. 

Statements like that remind me of the speech made by the prince of Wales, welcoming some immigrants to England where he said: “I’ve always considered myself extremely privileged to be born British.”   No seriously, he did!


  1. If one had a choice over where one could choose their birthplace Britain wouldn't be very high up the list.

    Alex Salmond's 5 Million Questions appearance to be screened live

    If you are going tris with Munguin of course give us all a wave.

    1. Well, it is infinitely preferable to The Democratic Republic of the Congo, or....em... oh yeah, Equatorial Guinea, or... nope, run out of examples.

      Munguin will, of course, be there tonight in Alex's retinue, but I have to wash and press his Wings over Scotland badge and his scarf, so I'll not get out till it's time for his car to pick him up from the reception.

      What time does it start?

    2. Thanks CH. That was brilliant.

      I suspect that it will be available on Youtube shortly as a recorded programme.

      Thanks for the heads up.

  2. Tris

    Cameron is a plonker and I have never seen him as an intellectual but he is media savy and can do presentation, he is in fact everything that Miliband is not in this area but sadly that is what many voters will vote on. Miliband has a better grasp, all be it wrongly, of policy where as Cameron doesn't but in the eyes of the voters Miliband is not a PM in waiting.

    I suspect that what Cameron is doing is two fold, he is expressing a view that he knows will get a lot of coverage, here we are talking about it. He is also saying to english voters I will stand up for England and for you, I don't want the Scots to leave, you don't want the Scots to leave, we are one happy, if somehwhat disfunctional family, but if the Scots decide to go me, David Cameron , your Prime Minsister will stand up for your rights and the Scots will have to see where the cards fall.

    He wouldn't do this if he didn't have a compliant media who are not interested in reporting the facts, doing actual investigative journalism, they do that they will lose their jobs. No one knows what the final vote will be, we know what we want but it will a long and very frightening night when the votes start to come in and we are all waiting on the Western Isles, and Cameron will play the game right to the end. He will lie, he will cheat , he will bribe, he will cuddle, he'll do what worked 300 years ago because they need what we have.

    Even if he gets his vote and his result, the UK doesn't go back to ever being the same again because we will have a split country and when a couple of years down the road people who voted no understand how much they were lied to, how much they were taken for a fool they will demand change. The difference being they will have to fight for it, march for it, demand it because after September there will be no future referendum agreed with Westminster unless we take to the streets and create a crisis, and Cameron knows it. Vote NO at your peril, at all our perils.


    1. Yes. He's a cheap nasty little PR man, with all that that implies. He'll say anything to get the result he wants.

      He's lived a life which isn't remotely connected to 99% of other people's lives. He knows and has always known that whatever happens he'll be just fine.

      I don't think the UK will ever be the same. The stupidity of his party's further devolution proposals is monumental.

      When will these parties learn that you cannot run an economy with control over only one major taxation method?

      The debate has brought the issues to the fore. Some say that is a bad thing... but they are the same people who would say that the right to challenge the predominance of the Church in the life of the country was a bad thing, or the right of Trades Unions to contest employers ' rights was a bad thing.

      Knowledge is never a bad thing, although it may produce some unfortunate outcomes. Ignorance is never really bliss, even if it has the appearance of bliss.

    2. tris

      yeah it frigging is

      War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.

      George Orwe

    3. And stupidity is of your own making.

    4. Ah Niko, pet, another one who lives in a wee world of his own.

      Still unlike Cameron, for some strange reason, you're OK.

  3. tris & ch and all nat whingers


    we know but dont care

    1. You maybe need to be reminded that I'll set Brownlie on you if you get too obstreperous. And you know what he's like when he's riled ...specially after 9 pm!

    2. Can I get your a hanky Niko, seems that the whining is coming from one side and one side only. We are all much too cheerful for you, you I think need the sun and out of the pouring rain, so off you go to Cyprus, the one place me and the dug will never set foot on, rather go to Turkey where they look after their dugs and cats.

    3. Never mind him, Helena. Taz will send him to his room without any dinner if he doesn't behave.

      Or worse...

  4. Quell surprise


    Alex Salmond says he would support compulsory voting at elections
    Scotland's first minister revealed he would back the Australian model where people can be fined if they fail to vote for the snp

    1. I saw the interview. It was said as a sort of a joke (but with a serious edge), and, needless to say, was taken out of context..

      He said he had sympathy with the idea. He said too that it would never happen. He had occasionally brought it up with colleagues and it was always given short shrift.

      He also pointed out the incredible difficulties of policing it. What would you do about people who didn't vote?

      I'm instinctively against being compelled to do things if there is an alternative.

      But I'd like to read more about how it works in Australia, because there is no doubt that having, for example, MEPs elected where 66% of the people didn't even vote, is ridiculous.

      Worse in England where their police commissioners were elected by as little as 12% of the area's population.

      But Alex is right. The cost of compelling people to vote would be outrageous and you would have to come up with all sorts of alternatives to voting on the day in a specific place otherwise you'd have people not able to go because they woke up feeling ill and stayed in bed, or couldn't get our because their child was ill... or they'd been called to another town because of family problems... or they had to wait in all day for the plumber, or they were old and frail and had nom one to take them, and it rained all day and was dark at night and they live in a dangerous area... or even a last minute holiday deal had come up and they had grabbed it.

      I wish I had a dollar for every time I've heard someone moan about a government or council and its actions and when I've asked who they voted for they've said.... oh no, I don't bother with that nonsense... It doesn't make any difference.

      But it's a good headline for the most unScottish of English Newspapers, The Manchester Guardian, so why not have a go?

      Oh, and Niko the spellchecker: "surprise" is feminine, therefore the adjective "quel" becomes "quelle". There is no such word as "quell", unless of course you mean "to calm" in English.

      Mrs Tahcher said so!!!

  5. Another excellent presentation Tris, you and the Munguin have done good again. David Cameron like his pal but unfortunately not school mate George are both products of the Public School System which does not use the brains just the influence to get on. Hence the state of Britain. I doubt I could actually call DC a PR man, a pretendy PR man maybe.

    1. I am humbled by your praise Helena.

      Munguin, on the other hand, says its only what's due to him, could you please be a little more effusive in your praise, and a bottle of expensive vintage champagne is always acceptable.

      But then he's a cheeky wee....

      I think that for a brief time Cameron did actually work as some sort of PR executive for a tv company in London. That's why I use that expression. He comes over to me as one of these greasy oily types that's always trying to sell you something and you feel slightly itchy when they have gone.

      Gidiot was a napkin folder before his elevation to Chancellor of Germany.

      I wonder if he managed to fold napkins?

      Probably not.