Tuesday 9 September 2014


Only a few weeks ago Jim Murphy said that Better Together or No Thanks was an amalgam of Tory, Labour and Liberals.

He refuted any connections with Ukip and BNP Fascists or the extreme Protestant group, The Orange Order. That they are campaigning on the same side in the matter of the referendum doesn’t imply that they share the same policies on everything. Fair enough. I doubt that the Greens and the Scottish Socialists agree on everything or that Labour for Independence and the SNP can always see eye to eye.

But Murphy made it pretty plain that these organisations could not campaign under the Better Together umbrella. 
Mr Cockburn
Unfortunately of course, as we know, Ukip in the form of MEP David Cockburn was spotted at a BT stall chewing the fat with one Danny Alexander. And of course the very fact that Mr Cockburn is in Scotland instead of his home in London, suggests that he’s on the job of keeping Scottish oil British.

Of course Mr Cockburn’s party is entitled to its unionist views, along with its other right wing opinions, but just because I find them repulsive doesn't mean that they aren't entitled to them, and to canvas for them. But isn't this a bit embarrassing for at least Labour and the Liberals?
Orange march in Glasgow
Now the Herald has revealed that there are people in the Labour movement who are supporters of the Orange Order, which is staging a march in Edinburgh this Saturday in support of the union.

Murphy has said that the march should not go ahead, although, surely, in a democracy, people have the right to express their views, political and religious, even if they are not to our taste so trying to ban the march is a little anti-democratic.

It is true, of course, that in the past the OO marches have attracted violence and that on the last rally for the union, a 12 year old girl was glassed in the face. But one violent incident cannot be allowed to stop people expressing their opinion so, just like any other political group, the OO can march for their cause.

As it will be an embarrassment for Better Together, it seems unlikely that the unionist press, including the BBC, will cover the rally. However I am sure that there will be plenty of coverage on the net. 
Violence is a hallmark of OO marches
Interestingly,  the Herald carries the story that despite Murphy’s dislike of the OO (he is after all, a Catholic), there are others within the Labour movement who welcome the Order’s involvement. Of course no Labour names are mentioned, but we might draw from this that there is some support in the Labour movement in Scotland for the Orangemen.

Here's an excerpt form the Herald's piece:

I hope that Yes people will avoid the march on Saturday; that the whole thing will pass off peacefully, with no violence, and that the only publicity will be reported on the net of a group of elderly "apprentices" dressed strangely singing their sectarian songs, waving their union flags and making a bit of an ass of themselves, while the grown ups get on with political canvassing on whatever side.


  1. Replies
    1. Hmmm... Jim, or me?

    2. Annon could be talking about that very, very nice man Mr Cockburn Tris. LOL

  2. Spotted this on the BBC's "Referendum Live" ticker:
    "Duncan Grant: Why no regular comment on why 600,000 Scots living in England get no vote even if only here for a short while. This is a constitutional scandal. An immigrant who has been in Scotland for a few months can vote even if they can't speak English. I along with most others would vote no!"

    Now what was it the First Minister said about decisions about Scotland being made by those who live in Scotland?

    Don't these people ever just close their mouths and open their ears?

    Never forget: the BBC is just the public face of GCHQ.

    Sorry to have gone OT so quickly, Your Munguinness!

    1. yeah Duncan... It's because we live here and you don't.

      It was, i think, considered that Scots all over the world should have a say.

      The problem was ...who was a Scot?

      Someone away on holiday, someone working abroad, in England, in Spain, In Canada? First generation, second generation, Aussie Scot who went out with the cons?

      In the end it had to be people who lived here. Yes even the dreaded immigrant Mr Grant's horrors.

      Anyway, we don't have rules about off topic here. Say what you want when you want. :)

    2. Exactly @tris, good point well made!

      On no level can you have people who don't live in a country getting a vote to decide its future.

      So I'm afraid @LocheeLuftwaffe you've made your bed you'll need to lie in it.

    3. Well exactly. We would have had more people outside Scotland voting than those inside!!!

  3. I think that the best tactics for the OO march would be for everyone to stay away. If you live or work on the march route go away for the day.

    If some-one makes trouble, they will stand out like a sore thumb. If they find themselves marching through empty streets, they will not like it but they will have no-one to blame but themselves.

    1. Absolutely agree.

      Don't go near them.

      We must not have any of our people involved in anything they are doing and we mustn't get any of our people hurt in this last week.

    2. If anyone finds themselves on the street when the OO are *ahem* marching the best advice I can give is either dive into the nearest shop and stay there until they have past or just turn your backs on them as they pass. Of course the best advice of all has already been given, AVOID the part of Edinburgh the OO are *cough* marching through all together.

  4. Best advice Muguin and Tris, don't go anywhere near it. Not difficult for me, rarely in Edinburgh and having seen my first and last many many years ago in Stirling in no hurry to repeat it.

    1. Munguin says he's going to stay in bed on Saturday and have his meals there. So I suppose I'll be in the kitchen all day cooking for him and getting his champagne cooled to the right temperature...:)

  5. Great article.

    I live on the outskirts of Edinburgh but most of my family and friends live central. The council allowing this march is a disgrace. We wrote hundreds of letters, e-mails off to voice our protest but no joy. Edinburgh council don't give a shit about the folk of the city.

    And even if they play it down , there will be trouble. It's typical and always has been.

    In this day and age , lots of pot bellied , baldy old men marching down the road spouting sectarian shite. Has beens the lot of them.

    The Irish Times had a letter from a NI Unionist mp asking for the march to be cancelled as it would be bad publicity to an already poor BT/NT campaign. Even and Irish Unionist sees trouble.

    Celebrating 2 foreign armies fighting a battle 350+ years ago in another country WTF ????

    Stay away folks. Stay well away.

    1. Well, I know you'll stay away from it Richy.

      It's more amusing than anything else and it won't do them any good. As you say pile of beer bellies on a day out celebrating they know not what, I suspect.

  6. Tris

    Agree with Richy, these marches are sectarian in nature and to argue they are allowed because of culture is a joke, they are not a part of Scottish culture purely Irish. I also think unless there is trouble it will barely be covered in any of the media due to the fact that bitter together, no thanks, git it up ya won't want to be associated with it.

    This might just backfire big time but lets hope no one gets hurt, because if it happens it will be played as the sole fault of the yes side even if it was the pope himself who came and threw a punch, he would be described as a yes voter dressed as the pope with the same name and an address in rome, with Jim Murphy on the world news warning AS to call off the dogs in white .


    1. Absolutely agree,. No matter whose fault it is, the BBC will make it YES's fault.

      The stay away advice is sound.

    2. The OO and their connection to Glasgow Rangers or Glasgow Celtic's connection with Irish republicanism could be compared to Partick Thistle being hijacked by Islamic Fundamentalists who then hoist an Islamic flag and start singing Taliban songs.
      Anything like this has no place in a secular modern society, all these marches should be banned.

    3. I loathe this sectarianism. Don't really see much of it in Dundee but it is there.

      It belongs in a bygone age, and it was ridiculous then... I mean come on, they supposed to believe in the same god, the same messiah and the same bible.. what#s to fight about?

      Incense or hard wooden benches?

      Get a life all these years ago.

      Now none of them goes to church and still they idiots are at it.

      God must be proud of them.

  7. Cockburn?
    I hope it does.
    that is all!

    1. I wish I'd not even thought about that!