Goodness me. We are half way through the first day and already we are bored.
We vaguely listened and dozed through the Today Programme and later listened to a week in politics (after which Munguin threw the radio across the room).
If this is the standard of debate, then it makes the Scottish Referendum campaign, and Project Fear, sound relatively adult.
Please, please Mr BBC DG, don't let's have Michael Forsyth all over the radio and telly until whenever, just becasue he's the only man standing who was close to Thatcher (her of the words NO NO NO and the actions YES YES YES!) and was party to her inner thinking on the Union.
Apart from Mental Micky, all the commentators we heard were English, and it was interesting to hear how many times folk intimated that "England" would be fine on its own (if only). The Tory MP from Berwick, Ann-Marie Trevelyan was gracious enough to expand that to "Great Britain" and while the woman was sickeningly sycophantic to Cameron, she was most certainly not having any of his "special relationship" nonsense.
Our favourite side-splitting comment was that Europe never listened to anything that the UK had to say, so we should leave. This despite the fact that the First Ministers of Northern Ireland, Wales and Scotland have asked the UK to delay the referendum until the national elections are over, so that this one topic should not overwhelm the campaigns which are about so much more.
At the time of writing, no such undertaking has been forthcoming. Maybe we should leave.
We thought some of these pictures would cheer you a little before tomorrows Soppy Sunday, when we promise there will be no mention of Europe!
Update!
 |
| So, now we know who will find themselves demoted if the answer is stay; and promoted if the answer is go. It's a calculated risk! |
David Baddiel should not be confused by the British Prime Minister David Bad-deal.
Update 2:
As I have commented elsewhere, why does the UK think it deserves "special" status in the EU? By "special" they actually mean "better" or more accurately "superior".
ReplyDeleteThe only way the elite will lose the Clarkson/Farage/Cameron attitude to "Johnny Foreigner", is if they lose their last colony. Which is us of course.
During the run up to the debate, I heard one Tory ex minister (I really can't remember who it was) challenged as to how Britain though it would get a better deal than everyone else. He replied along the lines that Britain was a very important country.
DeleteIn my opinion all countries, from the USA or China to Monaco or the Vatican are important.
I'm not sure why Britain is more important than the others.
As far as I can see he got more or less nothing.
So... battle will commence. I see some of the most unpleasant people in the country are lined up behind Farage... IDS, Patel, and that moron that messed up the English Justice Dept so much that even Govey was made to look good when he overturned all the daft policies, Grayling.
A charmless lot if ever there was one.
Still, we have to see who will line up on the other side.
A charmless lot no doubt.
What will happen is that politicians on both side of the debate will forget about the voters, which is the same as any other campaign. You see this whenever they are challenged on QT or other public debate. They will never, ever accept an opposing view to their own.
Deletezog
It's never about the voters. It's about their own glory.
DeleteThe EU debate is a difficult one to decide. Some arguments for remaining in the or EU or exiting are reasonable.
ReplyDeleteMigration is a major topic. Excluding genuine refugees, one of the main concerns has to be th impact on housing, education and health resources. There is no point in continually moaning about historical lack of investment; the current resource has to be looked at.
On the other, migration can have positive benefits to the economy, as it allows those with key skills to be allowed to work in the UK where there are shortages.
Another key issue, and probably the most important, is how business would be affected. What are the possible implications on trading with the EU? Some companies rely heavily on the EU market, whereas others do not.
My own concern is how the EU is budgeted. Not once have the accounts been passed by auditors. How in hell can this continue to be allowed? Also, why does the EU need two parliament buildings? It's a ridiculous waste of taxpayers money. Not entirely sure, but I believe that one third of the budget goes on farming subsidies. That will never changes as long as French farmers have political clout.
There is major confusion as to what Cameron was actually doing in these "negotiations". He seems think he is Churchill with is "battling for Britain" bollocks. Jingoism does not work in diplomacy.
Now we are about to be bombarded by non-stop campaigning for both the Scottish elections and the EU referendum.
Cameron is a bloody useless politician who should never have been given the opportunity to be a councillor, let alone the PM. He is miles out of his depth. Reminds me of the times of Nelson when rich families bought commissions for useless offspring, who in many cases turned out to be even more useless in the Navy.
zog
It is hugely complex issue, and like so many others, none of us REALLY knows what the best outcome cold be.
DeletePeople argue for so many reasons. Unfortunately a lot of it is racism. These Europeans coming over here taking our jobs. Of course figures show that to be rubbish, but it's a good line.
The farming subsidies are another issue. Of course many large farming concerns here, including those belonging to the Saxe Cobergs and other landed gentry, do very nicely over that.
His Battle of Britain thing is all about getting a large number of super nationalist people (I heard many of them this morning on radio, all talking about how England must close its borders to all foreigners) on side.
They aren't voting about the EU. They are voting about their intrinsic dislike of anyone who isn't English.
We also have to remember that the Tory Party is now effectively spit.
You back Cameron/Osborne and if they win, you have a future.
Or you are on the side of Grayling and Gove and IDS and if they will you have a career.
After it's all over, we may see some people doing time as Northern Ireland Secretary. Or some such unwanted job.
I wonder what side Fluffy is on? That said, does anyone care enough to ask him?
The prospect of seeing IDS and M+GOVE fight Dodgy Dave and May on this is just too delicious! I wonder who will win....
ReplyDeleteWhat is it they say: When thieves fall out....
Deletetris
ReplyDeleteOne sits amongst the outers and you wonder what you are doing with such vile
People.....but then to much economic migration ( not not refugees )
Had to laugh at Gove man of honour ear since when
The Torygraph is at the battle of agincourt
Chris vermin Grayling says Tory can hate each other's guts but
Forgive and forget afterwards and Cameron can sat as PM
Covering his slimy erse for afterwards and he loses the referendum
Amazing bunch of loons
Must think hard on wot to do
To be fair there are equally vile people in the INNERS, Niko.
DeleteHunt, Osborne, Cameron himself.
Tris
ReplyDeleteFluffy is on the "stay" side. Anyway if people in England vote 53% out then out it will be as the other 3 very valued members of the UK (hahahahahaha) won't have the numbers to beat it. Some other at WOS are saying that Project Fear mark 2 will mean it won't be an out vote. HOWEVER they are forgetting that much of the MSM is for an out vote. It's not like indy ref were only the Sunday Herald was for Yes.
Anyway, looks like no one outwith Caledonia will be paying an attention to May's elections. I'll be avoiding the news - until 24th June! Soppy Sunday's will be even more important to get us through the week.
What England says will be what happens.
DeleteCertainly the Tory tabloids are for OUT, except the Star which is still banging on about the Kardashians and someone killing Diana.
It looks like the Times will be backing out, because Rupert is probably on the OUT side. The Torygraph will be against.
Not sure about the Scottish papers.
I couldn't stand any more of it on teh news today.
Heartily sick of it already. Only 4 months to go.
Still have a thought for the Americans... 4 months would be a dream for them.
Net long-term international migration = +336,000 (up 82,000 from YE June 2014) in the year ending (YE) June 2015.
ReplyDeleteImmigration = 636,000 (up 62,000 from YE June 2014).
Emigration = 300,000 (down 20,000 from YE June 2014).
The net migration figure was a statistically significant increase from 254,000 in YE June 2014 and remains the highest net migration on record. This is a result of a statistically significant increase in immigration (from 574,000 in YE June 2014) and a decrease in emigration (from 320,000 in YE June 2014 (not statistically significant)).
Net migration of EU citizens showed a statistically significant increase to 180,000 (up 42,000 from YE June 2014). Non-EU net migration also had a statistically significant increase, to 201,000 (up 36,000).
The increase in long-term international immigration included a statistically significant increase for EU citizens to 265,000 (up 42,000), and an increase for non-EU citizens to 286,000 (up 17,000) (not statistically significant).
294,000 people immigrated for work in YE June 2015, a statistically significant increase of 53,000 from 241,000 in YE June 2014 continuing the upward trend since March 2013. Of these, 64% (187,000) had a definite job to go to.
162,000 of those coming for work related reasons were from the EU. Of those coming with a definite job, 101,000 were EU citizens, a statistically significant increase of 22,000 on YE June 2014. A further 54,000 of those coming for a definite job were non-EU citizens, also a statistically significant increase (of 11,000) compared to YE June 2014 estimates.
50,000 Romanian and Bulgarian (EU2) citizens immigrated to the UK in YE June 2015, a statistically significant increase of 19,000 from YE June 2014. Of the 50,000 EU2 citizens who came to the UK, 42,000 (84%) of them came for work related reasons.
Latest employment statistics show estimated employment of EU nationals (excluding British) living in the UK was 2.0 million in July to September 2015, 324,000 higher than the same quarter last year. Non-EU nationals in employment remained broadly similar at 1.2 million, and the total number of British nationals in employment increased by 122,000 to 28.1 million. Therefore, three-quarters of the growth in employment over the last year was accounted for by foreign nationals. (These growth figures represent the NET change in the number of people in employment, not the proportion of new jobs that have been filled by non-UK workers.)
In YE Sep 2015, total work-related visas granted (non-EU nationals, main applicants) rose by 6% to 122,909 including a 4,105 (8%) increase to 54,174 for skilled work (Tier 2) visas.
There were 862,000 National Insurance number (NINo) registrations to adult overseas nationals in YE September 2015, an increase of 194,000 (29%) on the previous year.
Long-term immigration for study increased from 175,000 to 192,000 in YE June 2015 (not statistically significant). Over the same period, visa applications to study at a UK university (non-EU, main applicants) increased (+0.2%) to 167,425.
There were 29,024 asylum applications (main applicants) in YE September 2015, an increase of 19% compared with the previous 12 months (24,324). The largest number of applications for asylum came from nationals of Eritrea (3,726), followed by Sudan (2,842), Iran (2,407) and Syria (2,402). Grant rates vary between nationalities; for example, at initial decision, the grant rate for nationals of Sudan was 84%, compared with 21% for Pakistani nationals.
Get all the tables for this publication in the data section of this publication .
And....?
DeleteWe need them. They contribute to the economy.
They take almost nothing in out of work benefits. They don;t come here for the crap deals IDS hands out.
In word benefits are paid to subsidise bad wages. Even at that few of them qualify to take them because the bulk are single, young people.
If they get married here then, why wouldn't they get them?
We must always remember that there is nothing to stop Brits going to any country in teh EU and working, where they will be entitled to all the benefits of France or Germany or Holland or Sweden or Finland, Denmark, Austria, Italy...etc. Indeed we can also go to Iceland, Lichtenstein, Norway and Switzerland.
Old people retire to Spain, Greece and Itlay and are able to get their health care there.
The UK has done less than almost every country in Europe to help refugees.
Im not sure what teh argument is.
frankly, without the European immigrants, a whole pile of our services would fall apart.
The "special status" call me Dave claims for the UK is not being received well by the people of Europe His mouth may have run away with him once too often I can see this coming back to haunt him big time if the resentment grows legs as it may well do
ReplyDeleteThat is the trouble with Eton Boys. They can;t help but be posh Brits.
DeleteHe's not really qualified for the job.
niko,
ReplyDeleteDo you have a problem with immigration? I vaguely recall boats leaving from the tail of the bank, which I assumed was Greenock, taking folk out of this country for 'better lives' mainly in Canada, Do you recall that mass emmigration better than I?
I might be wrong, but the fare was very cheap. You could almost assume that the UK was delighted to export it's best to the "White" Commonwealth. I recall no boats heading to India, say.
It is odd, is it not, that emmigration from here was encouraged back in the 1950's, and now immigration is to be discouraged? You might imagine that everything outside the South East is going to be a rather large sporting estate. Never let it be said that the Eton lads don't think big.
People went all round the world tog et away from here.
DeleteAnd the thing is that it is the best people who go. The ones with something about them.
They make, by and large, great workers.
May I also add that many more would be popping over the sea if the rules were as in the 1950's. You mentioned IDS Tris, who in their right mind would want to find themselves on the dole here and who in their right mind would truly retire here. Heard on one of the many buy a holiday villa type programmes yesterday that the Brits were flocking abroad to get away from the ENGLISH weather. I wonder how keen they are to come back?
DeleteI'm not sure how all of that will work. One of the things they say is that immigrants put a strain on the health and education facilities. But they are paying tax and council tax, so surely there should be more money available.
DeleteIf the older people who left to escape English/Scottish/ Welsh or Irish weather all come back, I wonder who will provide the funding for all the extra health care they need.
Just in case anyone had any remaining doubts that UKIP are extremists, Farage has shared a platform with George Galloway . Swivel eyed UK- Natery at its worst.
ReplyDeleteThe Tories shared a platform with him just before the referendum. Ruth and him representing U KOK.
DeleteNow Nigel is up there with him.
As you say Swivel eyed UK- Natery at its worst.
WOS,has a few paragraphs of Gove's speech, which basically outlines the positives of an independent Scotland. Some comments highlight the irony of his argument, but for me it is nothing short of blatant hypocrisy. What was trumpeted as stupid, crazy, madness even, cult driven and anti English, will now be the mainstay of the out campaigns propaganda.
ReplyDeleteIt will be interesting watching from the side lines, so to speak, as voters in England face the full might of the state propaganda machine.
I wonder how long it will be, before we start hearing about media bias, complaints re Treasury, MOD,FO and civil service interventions.
Yes. That was a very interesting piece.
DeleteI'm sure we will get use of it in the future.
And yes, we have already had Wee Willie putting his silly royal foot in his mouth.
DeleteNow Osborne's men at the Treasury will be cooking up figures and of course the MoD will be telling us how much we depend on the French (all the time spitting becasue they HATE them).
I think we may have to have Mad Monday; Wonderful Wednesday, and Flippant Friday!!! to get away from all this crap.
Golfnut I wait with baited breath for all of these things to happen, makes the next Indy Ref so much more fun.
DeleteI wonder if they'll start a campaign in England like
ReplyDelete" If you don't know, vote Go."
LOL.
DeleteGive wee Govey a call and suggest it.
Good idea, I just dropped him an email mail.
Delete:)
Delete