Makes sense, however when will the Yes campaign hierarchy start looking at where THEY failed, rather than continually blaming the media and project fear? Yes, it had an impact, but to say that the Yes campaign did not make mistakes - and currency was a big one - is denial.
Agreed. I read Joe Pike's book about Project Fear pointing out the howlers that tehy made; how useless Blair McDougall and Alistair Darling were, and I thought... Although making it public was embarrassing for them, they certainly can use these pointers for a future campaign.
It would be good for the Yes side to know where they went wrong.
I agree that currency was a huge issue.
A Scottish currency separate from the UK one seems to be a no brainer (although I can accept that at the time of the campaign, with oil prices sky high, that would have put the Scottish dollar (or whatever) so high against the UK pound that people's pensions would have been damaged and our exports would have become like Swiss exports... too expensive for 90% of people).
Well i can tell you were the YES lot went well wrong it was in the assumption the majority of Scottish people were willing and wanting an Independent Scottish nation. They and you saw what you most wanted to see and any contradictory evidence was belittled, insulted or ignored . Any counter argument against YES was portrayed as inaccurate and untrue YES on the other hand tried to paint an easy trouble free transition to Statehood with rest of the Ruk bending over backwards to aid the snp.
The Scottish people decided freely in the referendum NO a once in a generation choice the snp said generation in snp doublespeak now meaning well anything the snp decide it to mean.
and the nats and you are even now claiming the electoral success is a precursor to another referendum and a win for YES. putting aside the truth that not every one votes that more scots are not supporting the snp than those who do..
People shouting and jumping up and down about what could be a far away distant future choice may say one thing but come the cold light of day may decide to vote a different way.
BUT YOU LOT LOST FAIR AND SQUARE AND YET STILL CRY FOUL AND THAT THE PEOPLE CONTRARY TO WHAT THEY VOTED FOR ACTUALLY DO WANT TO BE INDEPENDENT AND SO YOU ARE DETERMINED TO FORCE ANOTHER VOTE DOWN THEIR THROATS REGARDLESS . WELL BEST OF WITH THAT ONE BECAUSE NEXT TIME THE NO VOTE WILL PROBABLY BE EVEN BIGGER.
Apologies for shouting but you nats with your obsessive behaviour fail to see the truth one bit
You must have a very strange definition of FAIR AND SQUARE, but then I guess that is what is required by Unionists to justify an outcome that will probably be overturned in time. Ditto the nonsense about a ONCE IN A LIFETIME statement. This was primarily a personal statement by one individual not an official pronouncement of SNP policy, and even if it were the latter, like any political outcome/statement, it is subject to circumstances - and boy, have circumstances changed since the referendum.
Oh circumstances the excuse of the extremist nationalist down the violent bloody Centuries and poor Alex just one individual now from Hero to Zero Nat style
Well at least a lesson in loyalty from you despicable you Alex does deserve a little bit better.....
Nobody said we didn't lose Niko. Alex and Nicola and the SNP and other parties accepted that. You can;t deny though that what Alan said came bang smack true.
It wasn't fair and square.
Mr Brown promised as near to federalism as you can get on behalf of Better Together, led by Mr Cameron, Mr Miliband and Clegg. Galloway, on a BBC show representing BT with Ruth Davidson, to a studio audience of 16 and 17 year olds, said that it would be Devo SUPER plus.
Of course he's a windbag, but he was on tv for BT (presumably Labour didn't have anyone free) and in the following days, no real politician disputed his words. He spoke for BT, he spoke for the Prime minister. None of them said he was talking rubbish.
Then there was Smith; then there was the Tory/Liberal Cabinet that watered Smith down (mainly Osborne, Alexander, May and the vile IDS). Then there was a further watering down in parliament, then in the lords.
Every amendment put forward by Scotland's MPs was voted down by the UK parliament. Despite having EVEL, it seemed that they weren't even going to try to accommodate what Scotland had voted for adn the vast majority of English MPs voted it down.
The lords have pointed out that the financial settlement is ridiculous, leading to Scotland being impoverished but as far as I can see they were ignored. Cameron seems to like to have a lot of them but doesn't want them to have any power.
Now, despite the Labour notion that Scotland should not be a penny better off or a penny worse off (Lamont, wasn't it?), from the settlement, we are going to be £3 billion worse off. About 10% and that's before Osborne's next round of cuts (which will lose us another billion). The only way for us will be to put up income tax, and continue to subsidise sewers, railways line and bridges and roads in England, while getting a poorer deal and putting up taxes. Brilliant deal Cameron.
But what did we expect? Ed Miliband was history, Nick Clegg wouldn't know the truth if it smacked him in the coupon, and David Cameron is an Eton Tory with Great British values of screwing the poor and that to him is anyone who didn't go to one of the better schools in England,and then Oxford... Gordon Brown has complained, but let;'s face it, he's not in parliament and Cameron, having used him, has no further time for him.
So I hope the Scottish parliament tells him to get stuffed.
We'd better hope for some decent MSPs who will refuse to pass the Act.
This is about as near Devo Plus as as Iain Duncan Smith is to being a decent human being.
That was so uncannily accurate as to what has now transpired.
I heard the click of the cage door snap shut on Scotland, on 19 September 2014 when EVEL was proclaimed at 7 a.m. by exultant Cameron.
Brown, Darling and 39 other Scottish Labour MPs could not have cared less that we were back in the cage; the bars of which they forged on behalf of the Tories.
the 41 labour Scottish MPs only cared that they had secured the SLAB gravy train for themselves and they 'could all go back to politics asnormal' with them paying lip-service to caring for Scotland.
Scotland would keep voting in 40 odd labour MPs who would do what they were told, as they knew which side their expenses bread was buttered.
Well, Scotland had other ideas.
Unsurprisingly, the unionists hereon completely omit the 2015 General Election sweeping SNP victory. All unionists suffer this selective amnesia. They keep banging on that 'you lost the REF' but forget the drubbing they received, when 56 SNP MPs brushed the Scottish Lab/Lib MPs into extinction.
No. Scotland has certainly not 'gone back to normal'. Every day we are working on the sneck of the cage door. Every day that sneck is getting looser. They thought they had duped us with their 'Vow'. Well, with every day that passes all their machinations are revealed.
Only yestreen, the Dundee Courier & the P & J (tory) newspapers, announced Scotland could stay in the EU, even if rUK voted to leave! Yet for 2 years they scared Scots that Scotland would be ejected from EU, if we voted NO.
Makes sense, however when will the Yes campaign hierarchy start looking at where THEY failed, rather than continually blaming the media and project fear? Yes, it had an impact, but to say that the Yes campaign did not make mistakes - and currency was a big one - is denial.
ReplyDeletezog
Agreed. I read Joe Pike's book about Project Fear pointing out the howlers that tehy made; how useless Blair McDougall and Alistair Darling were, and I thought... Although making it public was embarrassing for them, they certainly can use these pointers for a future campaign.
DeleteIt would be good for the Yes side to know where they went wrong.
I agree that currency was a huge issue.
A Scottish currency separate from the UK one seems to be a no brainer (although I can accept that at the time of the campaign, with oil prices sky high, that would have put the Scottish dollar (or whatever) so high against the UK pound that people's pensions would have been damaged and our exports would have become like Swiss exports... too expensive for 90% of people).
tris
ReplyDeleteWell i can tell you were the YES lot went well wrong it was in the
assumption the majority of Scottish people were willing and wanting
an Independent Scottish nation.
They and you saw what you most wanted to see and any contradictory
evidence was belittled, insulted or ignored .
Any counter argument against YES was portrayed as inaccurate and untrue
YES on the other hand tried to paint an easy trouble free transition
to Statehood with rest of the Ruk bending over backwards to aid the snp.
The Scottish people decided freely in the referendum NO a once in a
generation choice the snp said generation in snp doublespeak now meaning well anything the snp decide it to mean.
and the nats and you are even now claiming the electoral success is
a precursor to another referendum and a win for YES.
putting aside the truth that not every one votes that more scots are
not supporting the snp than those who do..
People shouting and jumping up and down about what could be a far away
distant future choice may say one thing but come the cold light of day
may decide to vote a different way.
BUT YOU LOT LOST FAIR AND SQUARE AND YET STILL CRY FOUL AND
THAT THE PEOPLE CONTRARY TO WHAT THEY VOTED FOR ACTUALLY DO
WANT TO BE INDEPENDENT AND SO YOU ARE DETERMINED TO FORCE
ANOTHER VOTE DOWN THEIR THROATS REGARDLESS .
WELL BEST OF WITH THAT ONE BECAUSE NEXT TIME THE NO VOTE
WILL PROBABLY BE EVEN BIGGER.
Apologies for shouting but you nats with your obsessive behaviour
fail to see the truth one bit
You must have a very strange definition of FAIR AND SQUARE, but then I guess that is what is required by Unionists to justify an outcome that will probably be overturned in time. Ditto the nonsense about a ONCE IN A LIFETIME statement. This was primarily a personal statement by one individual not an official pronouncement of SNP policy, and even if it were the latter, like any political outcome/statement, it is subject to circumstances - and boy, have circumstances changed since the referendum.
Deleteanon
DeleteOh circumstances the excuse of the extremist nationalist down the violent bloody
Centuries and poor Alex just one individual now from Hero to Zero Nat style
Well at least a lesson in loyalty from you despicable you Alex does deserve a little bit better.....
Nobody said we didn't lose Niko. Alex and Nicola and the SNP and other parties accepted that. You can;t deny though that what Alan said came bang smack true.
DeleteIt wasn't fair and square.
Mr Brown promised as near to federalism as you can get on behalf of Better Together, led by Mr Cameron, Mr Miliband and Clegg. Galloway, on a BBC show representing BT with Ruth Davidson, to a studio audience of 16 and 17 year olds, said that it would be Devo SUPER plus.
Of course he's a windbag, but he was on tv for BT (presumably Labour didn't have anyone free) and in the following days, no real politician disputed his words. He spoke for BT, he spoke for the Prime minister. None of them said he was talking rubbish.
Then there was Smith; then there was the Tory/Liberal Cabinet that watered Smith down (mainly Osborne, Alexander, May and the vile IDS). Then there was a further watering down in parliament, then in the lords.
Every amendment put forward by Scotland's MPs was voted down by the UK parliament. Despite having EVEL, it seemed that they weren't even going to try to accommodate what Scotland had voted for adn the vast majority of English MPs voted it down.
The lords have pointed out that the financial settlement is ridiculous, leading to Scotland being impoverished but as far as I can see they were ignored. Cameron seems to like to have a lot of them but doesn't want them to have any power.
Now, despite the Labour notion that Scotland should not be a penny better off or a penny worse off (Lamont, wasn't it?), from the settlement, we are going to be £3 billion worse off. About 10% and that's before Osborne's next round of cuts (which will lose us another billion). The only way for us will be to put up income tax, and continue to subsidise sewers, railways line and bridges and roads in England, while getting a poorer deal and putting up taxes. Brilliant deal Cameron.
But what did we expect? Ed Miliband was history, Nick Clegg wouldn't know the truth if it smacked him in the coupon, and David Cameron is an Eton Tory with Great British values of screwing the poor and that to him is anyone who didn't go to one of the better schools in England,and then Oxford... Gordon Brown has complained, but let;'s face it, he's not in parliament and Cameron, having used him, has no further time for him.
So I hope the Scottish parliament tells him to get stuffed.
We'd better hope for some decent MSPs who will refuse to pass the Act.
This is about as near Devo Plus as as Iain Duncan Smith is to being a decent human being.
That was so uncannily accurate as to what has now transpired.
ReplyDeleteI heard the click of the cage door snap shut on Scotland, on 19 September 2014 when EVEL was proclaimed at 7 a.m. by exultant Cameron.
Brown, Darling and 39 other Scottish Labour MPs could not have cared less that we were back in the cage; the bars of which they forged on behalf of the Tories.
the 41 labour Scottish MPs only cared that they had secured the SLAB gravy train for themselves and they 'could all go back to politics asnormal' with them paying lip-service to caring for Scotland.
Scotland would keep voting in 40 odd labour MPs who would do what they were told, as they knew which side their expenses bread was buttered.
Well, Scotland had other ideas.
Unsurprisingly, the unionists hereon completely omit the 2015 General Election sweeping SNP victory. All unionists suffer this selective amnesia. They keep banging on that 'you lost the REF' but forget the drubbing they received, when 56 SNP MPs brushed the Scottish Lab/Lib MPs into extinction.
No. Scotland has certainly not 'gone back to normal'. Every day we are working on the sneck of the cage door. Every day that sneck is getting looser. They thought they had duped us with their 'Vow'. Well, with every day that passes all their machinations are revealed.
Only yestreen, the Dundee Courier & the P & J (tory) newspapers, announced Scotland could stay in the EU, even if rUK voted to leave! Yet for 2 years they scared Scots that Scotland would be ejected from EU, if we voted NO.
All their lies are coming home to roost.
Tick Tock
Brilliant post. Thanks.
DeleteYes, I'm wondering if they actually managed to say one single word that was true during the campaign.
And you're bang on again... You lost , you lost...
Yeah, and what exactly are you doing now Jim Murphy? Is it running Scotland from your seat at Westminster?
nope, I don't think so.
Keep posting... please!