After hearing the arguments at the Dundee and Angus College
referendum debate a massive 83% of students backed independence, up from 60%
beforehand. Just 11% of students backed the Union in the final vote.
We can do this. People are starting to see the obvious flaws in the No case. The realisation that, if you vote No, this is as good as it gets, and it's likely to get a hell of a lot worse, is really getting through to people who are interested enough to listen.
What are they offering instead of independence?
Well, we've had Ming Campbell's report which said pretty much nothing, far as we can ascertain, and can quite reasonably be ignored, because the Liberals aren't in a powerful position. Even when they held the balance of power and had the ability to deny David Cameron the prime minister's job, they folded their tents and buckled down to what the Tories said. Even their cherished PR went out the window to be replaced with something which Nick Clegg had previously disparaged.
We've had David Cameron's '...we will look at, but we promise nothing' proposals which, although the press made much of them, were in fact a series of empty words carefully designed to make the audience think that they had substance.
And finally, Car Crash Lamont's pathetic proposals to give Scotland limited power to make life worse for it's inhabitants, but not better, than the UK, because of her commitment to share our resources. Whoopee!
And in any case, all of these sets of proposals would have to be approved for inclusion in party manifestos (no easy task given the pressure being brought about in England by Ukip to abandon devolution altogether). Then they would have to be passed by the English dominated London parliament (insuring that nothing which made life better for Scots would be approved unless there was a quid pro quo which would improve English life) before they could become law.
The words "chance" and "fat" come to mind.
That's really good news, it seems that the YES grassroots campaign,which is being run by locals all over Scotland are getting the message across, the saying "The truth is like a lion, set it free and it will defend itself" really does apply here.
ReplyDeleteOn another note it seems the coach company National Express, are giving a 50% discount to anyone going to the armed forces day in Stirling, on the same weekend the Bannockburn festival is to be staged, National Express have said its to get the numbers up for the armed forces day. No such generous offer has been provided to people going to the Bannockburn festival.
One of the things about Yes, is that it is ordinary people who are out there selling it.
DeleteNo, on the other hand, seems to be being sold by politicians, of whom many people tend to be suspicious (what's in it for them?)
National Express is an English company, based as far as I can make out, in Birmingham. The service is appalling; they run the town buses in Dundee and they are a complete nightmare. They messed up and walked away from the contract to run the East coast intentional line from Scotland to England.
From top to bottom, in my experience, their staff are surely adn rude. Some of their drivers should go back and have lessons.
Well, there's a proud thing. People have to be bribed to go to Armed Force Day... So, we really support "our boys" as long as we are getting a half price fare.
We must expect this from English companies who have a vested interest in keeping Scotland as a northern county of Britain.
That has made up my mind for me. I think I'll go to the Bannockburn celebrations (although frankly I loathe anything like that.)
Use the bus offer and go to Bannockburn instead.
DeleteGreat idea. Now why didn't I think about that?
DeleteI'm confident, Tris. I've just booked the 18th and 19th of September off work. :-)
ReplyDeleteGood guy.... I'll be transporting people around I guess on the day... and I'm thinking that I might be doing some recovering the next day.
DeleteI wonder how long it will be before the result comes through.
Note to self... buy suitable bottle of celebratory alcohol.
I might volounteer my car as well, Tris. Good idea.
DeleteI've just booked the 18th and 19th of September off work. :-)
DeleteWay ahead o ye there pilgrim booked the week off work about 6 months ago, car will be placed at SNP disposal :)
anyone else starting to get the feeling we're going to win this?
Yep.
DeleteJutie: I'm sure they'll be pleased to have all the volunteers they can get. See you there!!
DeleteSee you there too then, John.
DeleteYes, I think we can win it, if we can get information to people.
At the moment they are being blasted by the media ,message Britain good, Scotland bad....
We are changing that.
I take my hat off to all the people who do these debates and change so many minds.
BT never win them. Our arguments are simply stronger and better made.
Yet another independence debate and surprise surprise yet another win for the YES camp. Tie this result in with all the other independence debates and you have n extremely conclusive result of every one, bar the infamous Glen Almond "Big Brian's debate" , showing consistently that YES are winning the arguments. I think this is further backed up by the Panelbase poll carried out on behalf of Newsnet Scotland between 7th and 14th of March.
ReplyDeletehttp://tinyurl.com/pcua4jo
There appears to be a growing trend of Yes meetings being banned from some council property and church halls which is subverting democracy.
DeleteYes Arbroath. It's starting to look positive in the extreme.
DeleteWorrying. The Church of Scotland is anti independence? Jeeeeez.
DeleteCouncil properties should be available for this kind of meeting. They are doing themselves no favours with this. I mean people who are determined to run their own country are not going to be put off by a few local council functionaries being spiteful. They will simply have their meetings somewhere else.
Tris
ReplyDeleteIn most debates that I have seen the results in, apart from a couple of exceptions, YES has clearly won people over or there has been a substancial shift towards YES. These are important as they are engaging people at the ground level and hopefully this will go a long way to shifting the vote.
I also think that the RI programme of going into areas of multiple deprivation and getting people informed and registered to vote really scares Belter Together and esp labour. The last thing thing both want is poor people getting politicised and taking an interest as these are the very people that the NO side will be hoping will stay dumb and in their houses on Septemeber 18th.
You also have the panelbase poll today, and while I am someone who doesn't take polls too seriously, panelbase have really came out with a corker which will really frighten the NO side. I have also had people saying that The Sun and The Herald in recent weeks have started to report pro YES stories and appear to be becoming more critical of the NO camp and this on top of some of the BBC Scotland Reporters becoming a bit more fair in treating both sides a little more equally and appear to at least be starting to question the NO camp and esp politicians a bit better, not James naughty,but still it's a step in the right direction.
I still think the vote will be very very close but when Derek Bateman, a man whom I respect a great deal, is saying he is sensing a real turning of the tide and really believes it is going to be a YES it certainly gets you thinking.
I suspect the NO side have very little else to throw on the negativity front to be honest, I can't think of any cards they would have left. I bet they are delighted with Darling and McDougall now and how they have handled this. If even two of the papers turn, say the Sun and the Record then NO are really in trouble.
Interesting times and while I still come across an occasional NO voter willing to admit it I sense things are turning, their is just a wee feeling of hope starting to come through. Osbourne blew the budget, labour blew their devo zero paper, and the Libdims are all over the place. If the euros elect UKIP in England and a Labour wipe out or close to it in Scotland then it gets very real. I believe the recent feeling is Labour will get one MEP in Scotland.
I'll always be a cynic but even I am starting to believe, I just laugh all the time at NO, they hate it.
Bruce
Brilliant idea to get into the schemes and get talking to people who are living at the margins.
DeleteYou have made a good point there. For years Labour has relied on them to stay faithful, while standing all over them at a national level hurting them to make life better for bankers, and at a local level more throwing them the odd bone.
I still believe that as well as their armed forces day and their grand celebrations of mass slaughter ( and yes, I know they changed it to "commemoration", but, before it shocked the living daylights out of people, Cameron originally said that he wanted to recreate the spirit of the Jubilee and the Olympics), they will come up with some last minute thing.
As I said recently, some French paper speculated that Kate Middleton was "with prince" again... but who knows what a government desperate to win will do.
These are the people that went to war in Iraq on false information and killed hundreds of thousands of people because it was pleasing to George W Bush.
The British government is capable of anything at all to get its way.
The video of the debate.
ReplyDeleteThanks CH.
ReplyDeleteThis is a load of rubbish I go to Dundee college I represent a whole department which consists of around 300 people who voted no! So this is completely untrue and false! Typical nat response!
ReplyDelete