Of course you may say that they intend to replace the ECHR
with a Great British one. But, as writer
Marcus Chown says: The thing about human rights is it protects humans. That
means everybody who is a human. Not merely the people Tories decide are human.
And before that causes a stir, we have to ask ourselves how
many people the regime managed to find fit for work weeks, if not days, before
they dropped dead!
If that's how they value the lives of humans who are ill and
dependent on benefits, I'm not certain I trust them with my life, unless I win
the lottery, of course and become filthy rich, and thus, one of them.
I'm guessing that although it may be that the London
government has the right to remove ECHR legislation from Scots Law, Fluffy may
find himself in a 58-1 minority here.
It may not be worth the pain and damage.
They are also looking to cripple the power of the unions. However, the RMT's latest ballot has been voted in favour by members with a total that is well in excess of the proposed minimum votes (if that makes sense!).
ReplyDeleteThe Tories are going to go too far as usual. There has to be control of the unions, but you cannot hamstring them.
Slightly aside, on the "fit for work" assessments. They were a bloody disgrace. One person was declared fit simply on the basis he was able to attend the assessment! Thankfully, the courts threw that out of the window.
Human rights legislation is sometimes abused, particularly by foreign criminals who avoid deportation - only to commit more crimes. But overall it is an essential safety net that cannot be tossed away.
I think that everything that is put in place for the benefit of people, can be, and is, abused by someone at sometime. Social Security Benefits are abused, no one would deny it, but the answer is not to get rid of benefits and let all the decent people who never steal 1p.
DeleteSome people will cheat no matter what, but we can;t abandon decency becasue someone will take advantage of it.
I think they have to be careful about hog tying unions. People use unions to air grievances. Without that where do you go.
Of course unions can get too powerful, and we all know what power does.
But I'd not like to see the results when people feel they have no where to go with industrial disputes.
Water canon everywhere.
I think we are in for a rough 5 years.
Democracy is under attack throughout the world ever since the financial crash when corrupt politicians in power caved in to the bankers demands. Austerity is a political decision not a financial one.
DeleteTTIP Asian style.
ch
DeleteI agree Austerity is just an attack of the rich on the poor....
now i am gonna have a lie down
TTIP has to be stopped, at least for health. It would mean, if I understand it right, that no matter whether we wished to sell or not, we would be obliged to.
DeleteJust plain evil.
Agreeing with CH?
DeleteTake your temperature and get Taz to get you a cold compress!
Taz is in no fit state.
DeleteThe Peat Worrier, has a good piece re: the human rights act.
ReplyDeleteYes, I read it. It's excellent. Did you not direct me there the other day?
DeleteJust had a look back, through your posts and comments, and yes I did. My memory, isn't what it used to be.
DeleteAh, well, just as well that I'm on the erm... what's it called again.... round thing, with no edges, you know, Andy Murray hits them with a tennis whatsit....
Deletetris
ReplyDeleteJust saw this on the telly..thought of you well I would ,
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b05vnhz1
Je t'aime: The Story of French Song with Petula Clark bbc 4 9pm friday
Anyways
we are all up for the fight to keep the ECHR
Take exception with ' replace the ECHR with a Great British one.'
you mean English and more than that English tory view on Human Rights.
Cameron today...Blue-collar Conservatism: and hard working people meanwhile
Sajid Javid looks to implement the The Beecroft report with consequent loss
of hardworking peoples employment rights,
Cameron tosser man of the ordinary people says everyone should have a pay cheque
excepting nobody ever says that....wage slip pay slip whatever but never pay cheque
but he wouldnt know that as he has no idea of the life of ordinary working people.
Aww thanks mate... That was thoughtful. Look forward to getting it taped.
DeleteWell, sorry I was quoting him. He said a British Bill of Rights, but written by English Tories and Muddle.
I cant believe them. Osborne over in Brussels today talking about the working man... like he's ever met one.
Cammy is funny when he tries to be an ordinary human. he doesn't speak English, just Eton.
tris says
ReplyDelete' I think we are in for a rough 5 years.'
I says I survived Thatcher I aint afraid...F'ck them
I think he will be worse that Thatcher, Niko.
DeleteBut you voted to be ruled by them Niko.
DeleteAt least you voted for us to be ruled by them. You're fucking off to Cyprus.
We may all turn up on your doorstep Niko and ask for political asylum from this asylum!
DeleteI've never been a member of any union. However we have collective bargaining in my work, and up until recently the union have been useless.
ReplyDeleteHowever, they seem to be getting their act together, and it looks like legal action is a distinct possibility - this is all public knowledge by the way, nothing confidential. The union sent out an open newsletter to every employee. What I won't disclose is my employer.
Reducing union power is highly dangerous. What could happen is a general strike that could cripple the country. I think the threat is very real, especially as they are looking at reducing employee rights. I know that in the USA employees have far less protection that we have in Europe.
Perhaps the master plan is to get out of Europe, screw the unions and screw the "hard working people" (don't you fkn hate that phrase?!?). The Cameron and his chums will be happy.
Incidentally, what's with Gideon being made the "First Secretary"? Apart from sounding like a Soviet-era title, is this a present to keep him happy? Gideon changed his name to George as apparently he said no one would have a Prime Minister called Gideon. At least Prescott was given a similar job for a reason, even if he is as useful as a chocolate kettle.
Sorry, rant over, but this crop of Tories is worse than Thatcher. All best pals in the inner circle. No way to run a country.
I worked for a brief time in a nightmare job at the jobcentre. The manager was, to put it mildly, a daft bitch. The union there was completely useless.
DeleteSo I know what you mean.
I agree that if you take power away form the workers and try to deny them, you are asking for unrest. People will only take so much.
Hard working families (up and down the country) drives me mad with anger.
They all do it.
And I wonder, who looks after the people who can't work, who are old or sick... Gideon never thinks about that.
As for First Secretary, Willie Hague got that when Cleggy got to be Dept FM... It's a sop.
I'm surprised Gideon isn't DPM.
Tris,
DeleteDepending on when you worked in the Job Centre I may well have been your regional representative. I was Chair of the TUS Whitley Council and wonder what were the issues over which the union was hopeless? With members reluctant to take industrial action unions are very much ham-strung but we managed, for instance, to keep residential units for "rough sleepers" open for ten years after the Tories were going to close them and forced Thatcher's government to provide twelve times the original funding for replacements.
One think I do recall is that at every conference motions were put forward by Labourites over funding the Labour party and just as regularly were rejected!
Hi John.
DeleteIt was 1998. I was there on a short term contract as what was called a PB9.
I was put in as a Recruitment officer, responsible to recruiting, interviewing and recommending people for employment. I was being paid at £3.64 an hour (the minimum wage being £3.60).
The Business Manager was a lifer. She got where she got by being there a long time. She had more than 20 staff off long term sick. Her organisational skills level could be equated with Jim Murphy's charm level.
I was doing a really hard job for £8000 a year. I went to management and said this was ridiculous. It was a management job, and I was doing it. They said, if you don;t want to do it, you can do some filing instead. I went to the union rep and he said... well, they offered you an alternative.
OK sounds a bit feeble, but as I say the place was short staffed due to people being off sick with depression and stress, people being disciplined for having cancer, and being off longterm. No one got any help from the union at all.
This is nothing to do with the unions but will let you know how well organised they were. I started in the December. The following April they sent me on a very expensive course at Stirling University Management Centre on how to conduct Psychometric Testing.
I came back from the course, conducted one test, and then they had to pay me (and all the other PB9s) off, because they had run out of money.
I remember my immediate boss was crying when she told me. I put my arm around her (politically incorrect) and told her I'd never been so happy in my life.
I had to sign on. About a month later they offered me a job back... filing. I refused it and the Business manager sanctioned me. Fortunately within days I had got another job (using my Psychometric Testing qualification) as a Recruitment Consultant with another charitable organisation at about 3 times the money!
But I do appreciate that members not wanting to take industrial action does tie unions' hands.
One of Mrs Thatcher's great reforms. Get them to buy houses with mortgages. They won't be able to afford to strike. We'll have them and we can do whatever we want to them.
I understand what it is like to be worried every time a brown envelope comes through the door.
ReplyDeleteIt is only a matter of time until I'm told I will have to have another health assessment by the mob who have taken over from ATOS.
I have been assessed, told I am fit for work, I have appealed and been given a reprieve three time so far.
The last time was the worst and I will not put myself through the process again. I'm not sure what I will do. It takes me many many months to get over the whole process.
If you have a hidden, or not immediately obvious illness, such as mental health problems, the system does not seem to work. If you can string a few words together or appear to have intelligence they do not understand. And they most certainly do not believe you.
Anyway could find themselves in the same position that I now find myself in. It could happen to you. One day you can cope with the world, you are a productive member of society and are treated with respect. Then, when illness strikes, you are treated with contempt. In addition to the health problems you are suffering you have "society" telling you that you are not part of this "hard working family" that is deserving.
So, when you most need compassion and assistance what do you get?
You are processed. You are told that you are worthless. You are not believed.
Why would anyone want to continue to live in a world that made you feel that way?
Anon.
DeleteThanks for sharing your story with us.
I understand exactly what you mean.
In their desperate attempt to achieve targets they retest and retest people.
I have a friend who has problems with stress and depression, although outwardly relatively well. He is articulate, educated to masters standards, and always well presented.
He too has been turned down, but reinstated upon appeal. But he knows it will only be a matter of time before they hit on him again. And you are absolutely right that the worry of whether in a few weeks time, he will be able to afford to eat and keep himself warm, is making his condition worse.
In many "hard working families" there is a brother, sister, aunt, uncle, cousin, who has to be helped by the rest of that "hard working family". Some times it's because they have health problems, sometimes because they are getting old.
It's bloody insulting to families that the British equates them to the hard harsh unfeeling and unthinking Westminster system.
As you say, it could be any one of us. High flyers to low earners in repetitive jobs. It could be a mental health issue or something like Addisons which has very little to show on the surface, but possibly devastating effects.
But whatever it is, it could be just around the corner. We should be aware of that.
The problem for us is that whatever affects them, the folk at the top will be protected. I doubt if Mr Janner is being tested in any way to see if he can go on getting his £300 a day.
I'm pretty sure I speak for the readers on Munguin's Republic when I say I hope desperately that they will leave you the hell alone to try to get better.
You note that the WM parties always refer to "hard working families". If you look at the SNP manifesto it talks about households. The difference is that SNP has looked at the census figures for households and understands the difference.
ReplyDeleteGood point! Some people don;t live in families. more than ever before
DeleteI just wonder about all the people who are not hard-working. In my working life, and as a customer I've come across thousands and thousands who do their jobs, from 9 to 5, and don;t actually give a damn about it. They don;t slack necessarily (although some do), but you'd be bloody hard pressed to call them hard-working.
What about them? Can they all go to hell?
Anonymous - It's a strange world where it's the people living with some of the most frightening things that are called weak, worthless and parasitic. As if the human vulnerability to suffering is somehow weakness, and illness is a sin or a crime.
ReplyDeleteThey must be afraid of being alive if they need to lie about, control and harm the people they call weak. I think they know that the worse a person is treated the more likely others are to distance themselves by blaming the victim. They've used hate in their campaigning like a parent dangling shiny keys in front of baby.
I tell myself that half our country voted for this scapegoating to stop. And it will stop one day. till then we try hold on, and look after each other.
Good point Kathleen.
DeleteBut they are inhuman, and people who are ill or old represent a drain on the economy to them. Doesn''t matter what you have put in before, or what you may contribute in the future. At the moment you are a drain.
if i were a member of the royal family I'd be worried.
Oh, no, wait, I wouldn't.
I was happy the SNP avoided using "hard working families", but they started using the "hard working" bit in the weeks before the election.
ReplyDeleteWell I can;t say I noticed that, but please, if you are listening, it doesn;t work.
DeleteOnly very stupid people think that the only deserving folk are "hard-working".
Some people don;t work hard at all, but provide love and care to their families.
We could start talking about "loving people" but we won't.
Let's just try to avoid these nasty boring meaningless phrases altogether.
The Tory proposals will,if executed,strip us of basic rights afforded to all European Union citizens.
ReplyDeleteIn my mind,this is sufficient justification for asking the people of Scotland if they agree to this being done without their consent.
They will try to do this,no doubt,before the Scottish elections next year and before their in/out referendum on EU membership.
Their governor general,Blundell,is trying to spin this as a "UK" matter so that what we Scots think,as usual,doesn't count but it surely completely exposes the fallacy of Cameron's "one nation"
narrative.
This is what happens when you allow voters in England to elect governments who do not represent the democratic views of people in Scotland in such a fundamental way.
I wonder if, seeing that it impinges on Scots law, it will have to pass through the Scottish parliament, before it can become law here.
DeleteIf so I suspect that the SNP, Green, Independents and Liberals at least will vote against it, and possibly some of the Tories and Labour too.
That would mean they would have to force it upon us.
Carry on treating us like an irritating but useful colony Westminster.
It does you no favours at all.
I'm afraid I'm not one of those people reacting with so much melodrama to the prospect of ditching the 1998 human rights act.
ReplyDeleteIf anything I can see the appeal in doing so.
It seems to me that what reform or outright withdrawal from the ECHR would do is enable a return to our historic concept of human rights. What it would do is reaffirm British faith in our tradition of upholding the principle of democracy "in which a parliament mandated by the people has the sole right to legislate on matters of human rights".
In fact what a British bill of Rights would do is ensure the UK concept of human rights is defined by our representatives. As opposed to the ECHR status quo, where we risk letting judges from illiberal countries such as Albania & Azerbijan dictate the terms.
Those opposing ditching the HRA, and withdrawing from the ECHR are revealing a shockingly low opinion of our British traditions on human rights.
So I hope the new government presses ahead and gets this sorted.
If it's done in the 100 day honeymoon it's highly likely only the SNP will realistically offer resistance to it. I don't see the decrepit remains of internecine Labour offering up anything other than feeble resistance under Harman.
'British traditions on human rights.'
DeleteSnigger.
Sorry Dean, as Jutie says, "snigger".
DeleteDean joins UKIP official.
DeleteHuman Rights strongly reflect traditional British values. The European Convention, a treaty that states our human rights, was largely drafted by British lawyers. They based it on values that had been part of our common law for centuries, dating back 800 years to Magna Carta. The UK Parliament then chose to enshrine the European Convention rights into our law through the Human Rights Act.
One bit of good news for democracy is that it looks like a vote in the US senate yesterday may have scuppered TTIP.
ReplyDeleteJust hope we don't start to see protectionist moves from the USA as a result.
That IS good news, Bringiton, with, as you say, the proviso that protectionism is not one of the results..
DeleteBritish traditions on human rights! That precisely is why it is so important to retain the ECHR.
ReplyDeleteHillsborough? Saville? Paedophile crimes? Iraq?The poor children taken from care homes for "car rides"?
The First past the Post voting system?
Dean MacKinnon- Thomson, c'mon reassure me you don't mean what you have posted here, you were just being mischievous to cause a reaction
In Britain you have rights...any number of them... if you are very rich, an MP, lord, royal, or top person in the establishment.
DeleteIf not, tough.
Why oh why what is good enough for everyone else is NOT good enough fro the UK is beyond me.
Dean MacKinnon Thomson,
ReplyDeleteYou say:
Those opposing ditching the HRA, and withdrawing from the ECHR are revealing a shockingly low opinion of our British traditions on human rights.
You are absolutely correct. My opinion on the UK government's record on rendition, illegal wars and Gitmo is almost directly tied to how contemptuous I am of this disgusting move. The British tradition on human rights is contemptable.
Yes, there seems to be some superiority complex on the part of the Brits. THEIR human rights is superior to everyone else's, and they don't need supervising by mere foreigners.
DeleteSad times ahead for so many folk Tris. And i'm still on a high from the landslide for the SNP . Now it's "bittersweet" but sweet all the same.
ReplyDeleteI'm not immune either to the DWP rules and sanctions. Lung damge, heart damage, and a host of complications because of this i have been found "well enough" to be put on a Work related activity group. Constant threats are the norm and when i eventually go in and see them they cannot get me out quick enough. Taxi within minutes. They pay.
i am told i have no chance of working, in a whisper from the interview, but they have to go through the procedures. At 52 i will be lucky to see 60 and for the first time in my life i cannot fend for myself. I left school at 16 and joined our forces and worked all my life.. Loved work and the new friends i made.
Being stuck in he house is hard. Lonely at times and you watch the world go by like your "on the edge " of things. Not part of .
Anyone can fall on hard times. illness and disability is hard enough without the constant abuse thrown in from people who should know better. The treatment the younger ones get is shocking. Why do we have to be so hard on them. Growing up is hard enough .
What happens to our kids and the disabled really pisses me off. When did we stand by and allow kids to go hungry ??? When did it become ok to abuse the sick and disabled ???
I take hope in my fellow Scots. We stand together and have voted against this govt. I pity the rUK tho.They ignored the pleas of their sick. Selfish bastards. They vote in the most abusive govt ever . Thatcher was bad but she never attacked the kids or disbled on this scale. I give up on rUK.
The worste govt in history have been given a majority . How the hell can they be so stupid.
P.S. Highlighted last years during the referendum
The tory's bought Water cannon vehicals last year. And now they are on station in every major city in England. Christ sake they were banned in NI when i was over there..
Human rights ???? we're being shafted every day . have been for years . The british Values that folk tout are drivel when children go hungry in their local foodbanks. Ignorant and blind.
We have a way out Tris. I pray we take it soon.
Hi Richy
DeleteYou probably already know this. I've been through the Work related activity group position and it only lasts for one year, backdated to when you were first put into it. You will get a letter exactly one year later which will tell you that your circumstances have changed. Even if they have not.
The best thing to do before that one year is up is to appeal the decision and ask to be placed into the Support group. You'll need a GP letter which says that if you're not put in the Support group it will cause you harm. The black triangle groups web site has a standard letter which you can use.
If you wait until the one year is up they stop payments immediately but you still have to attend work related interviews as they continue to pay your National Insurance contributions.
Being moved into the Support group will give you a wee bit more time between assessments, maybe 2 to 3 years if you are lucky but even in the support group thy can decide at any time to re-assess you.
Good luck.
Tris
ReplyDeletePeople need to start getting to bed early because for the next five years those of us who actually care have a fight on their hands or lose it all. Tory bastards.
Bruce
Oh Bruce, don't say these dreadful words... early to bed...
DeleteNo wonder I'm not healthy, wealthy or wise...
But I agree, we have a fight and we had better win it.