Sunday 20 January 2013


Dear Mr Sarwar MP

I write this in response to your untrue, unfounded and un-researched allegations in the House of Commons during the Section 30 debate. In your speech you claimed: 

"We have seen the launch of the Labour for Independence campaign, which has one or a maximum of two Labour members fronting a campaign led mainly by the SNP…..”

Some might call it admirable that you feel you can give such false information to the British Parliament without any evidence or research behind it. However, we at Labour for Independence believe in an honest political dialogue. 

Here is a list of Labour party members who are staff and ambassadors of Labour for Independence. We have also included some supporters at their own request to show their full backing for our group. 

Allan Grogan- Labour member & LFI founder
Steven Syme - Labour member & LFI Southern Scotland regional co-ordinator.
Alex Bell – Labour member & LFI West Coast co-ordinator
Paul Leinster- Labour member & LFI Ambassador
Debbie Waters- Labour member & LFI Ambassador
John Paul Tonner- Labour member & LFI Ambassador
Michael Daley- Labour member & LFI Ambassador
Celia Fitzgerald- Labour member & LFI Ambassador
Alex Foulkes- Labour member & LFI supporter
Tam Dewar- Labour member & LFI supporter
Robert Cowie- Labour member & LFI supporter
John Dalzell- Labour member & LFI activist
Robert Lodge- Labour member & LFI activist
A mention must also go to George Anderson, former Labour member, one of the heroes of the Skye Bridge crossing group, and now a LFI ambassador.

We have not carried out a full audit of members and supporters. But this sample clearly shows that we have more than a ‘maximum of two’ members. We are sure that throughout our social media support and our grass roots campaigning we have and will continue to receive more support from our fellow Labour members. 

While Labour membership numbers seem to be especially important to the party HQ when discussing LFI, it is important to stress that we are not solely a members group. We encourage and welcome support from all of Labour, including past supporters. I am sure you will appreciate that the success of any group is not based solely on formal membership. If so the Labour party would have received 13,000 votes in the last Scottish Election finishing up 90,000 votes behind the Lib Dems. Your other accusation that we are a front for the SNP is plainly ludicrous and will be seen for the lie it is. Frankly, this is a desperate move by a party hierarchy out of touch with their members, supporters and the people of Scotland. 

I hope this goes some way to giving you the facts. I will assume that you will no longer be peddling such mistruths in future. 
This will be the last time we will respond to such remarks; any further similar attacks will be treated with the contempt they deserve.

On a personal level I would like to say how disappointed I was with your comments in the House particularly coming only days after you promised a positive campaign. 

We at LFI and Yes Scotland will continue to deliver a positive message to all Labour supporters and to the people of Scotland, persuading them of the benefits an independent Scotland will bring, with a real Scottish Labour party at the heart of it. 


Allan Grogan
Labour for Independence Founder.


  1. Allan at least some within Labour are honest. Davidson and Sarwar were a disgrace and made me ashamed they are allegedly Scottish.

  2. True Bruce. They were a total disgrace.

  3. Tris

    I am getting so sick of the media not holding Labour to account but we get stories like the water one. No wonder people like myself have pretty much stopped buying a paper these days.

    A wee side question do you a twitter account for your blog I can follow.

  4. Bruce

    we Unionists own the media get over it!

    Bruce says

    'Davidson and Sarwar were a disgrace'

    tris says

    'True Bruce. They were a total disgrace'

    Niko says to Bruce and tris

    'Ya couple of tits yer like

    two old ladys
    fret fret fret;

    1. Wrong you numpty - the BANKERS own the media just like they own ALL of your political parties. That is why they have this country like most of the others illegally running under Admiralty Law and the ones that don't we are invading and taking over at the moment on behalf of these BANKERS and they will be running this system as well when we have finished. Th same goes for the Banking system.

  5. Niki

    If a desire for honesty makes me a tit I have no issue with that.

  6. I think that's three articles this week from previously solid unionists who have discovered that the unionist side don't have anything much to promise except more favouritism and nepotism, greed and corruption, CH.

    And Alan Grogan cowtows to nothing and no one it seems.

  7. I haven't bought a paper for years, Bruce. I do look at them on line, which I suppose given them revenue in the form of page visits, which translate into advertising revenue. But as for parting with hard earned... not on your life.

    The papers have been ridiculously unionist, because, of course, they are based in London, or their parent companies are. But some columnists are starting to wake up and smell the coffee.

    I don't have a Twitter account that I use for the blog, Bruce, I'm sorry...

  8. Och Niko Pet, what's up. Taz stole yer dinner?

    I see you've come over from the dark side, and you're going to vote YES...

    About time.

  9. Nice scoop Tris, congrats.

    The pity is that there are no sanctions available to use against people who deliberately lie through their teeth in the 'mother of parliaments. God help any institutions which model themselves on wasteminster...... they are surely bastard children!

  10. There's supposed to be a squeaker and a pile of legal clerks to advise him... but I suspect that they are all unionists too and don't mind what kind of lies are told about the place they go to shoot grouse or deer...

    Yes, imagine modelling on the Westminster of the least democratic in the supposed West as Rev Stu was pointing out today.

    Are you finding this arrangement any easier to post on?


    not to mention a house of aristocrats, some there by birth, some placemen of the parties and some because they are bishops in a church almost no one goes to. And which in most cases is so deeply involved in its own sexual inadequacies that it hasn't got a clue that people are starving out there (I except the Bishop of Liverpool, who seems to be aware of what's going on).

    Then to top it up a head of state who''s son is in line to take over when she dies, and then followed by his son, and so on...

    Democracy? Anas Sarwar is such a bloody silly arse.

  12. I understand that Anas Sarwar is Jo Lamont's deputy? Imagine being classed as not as erudite, eloquent, intelligent and photogenic as M/s Lamont!!

  13. tris

    Er! no i didn't say I would unconditionally vote yes I said 'IF' the Torys were in a position at 2014 to lead the UK out of the EU.

    Then the only option would be to vote for Independence
    to ensure remaining within a greater Union that guarantees
    (And keep the snp under the rule of law and not
    dictat by Alex Salmond)

    My fervent hope wish and prayer is that the Labour
    party and other partys(not the snp) are odds on to win
    at Westminster. Then I can vote no to Alex Salmond and yes
    to the glorious 'Union' of the UK within the EU.

    I am a Unionist with all that entails lying cheating
    stealing with a tad of deceit and big fat dob of betrayal.

    But being outside a 500 million union is not a option
    even more so under unfettered English Tory rule.
    The polls are beginning to swing away from the right wing racist anti-eu whether in time for Independence vote we will have to wait and see.

    Sanity may be madness but the maddest of all is to see life as it is and not as it should be. ~Don Quixote

    “I stopped in the middle of that building and I saw — the sky. I saw the things that I love in this world. The work and the food and time time to sit and smoke. And I looked at the pen and said to myself, what the hell am I grabbing this for? Why am I trying to become what I don't want to be? What am I doing in an office, making a contemptuous, begging fool of myself, when all I want is out there, waiting for me the minute I say I know who I am! Why can't I say that, Willy?”
    ― Arthur Miller, Death of a Salesman

  14. A squeaker? Freudian slip or just honest observation?

    Speaker or squeaker he/she wouldn't know make-up of LFI so not in a position to correct/admonish. Time for complaints procedure to bring miscreants to book following a complaint. Is this sort of thing covered by the parliamentary watchdog or ils that just for those with deep pockets?

  15. Niko with two iis.

    Oh, I though we had converted you... drat.

    You do realise that under Labour there will be no change to conditions for the poor... don't you?

    Just mentioning it, because it's true :)

  16. LOL , no I meant it. They call him that because he's little and he likes cheese.

    I think it's a bit of an insult to mice if you ask me.

    I think that's what the little man has all these clerks for. They are legal experts who tip him off about procedure and other stuff. No chance of anyone bothering to complain, I suspect. Presumably it has to be an MP.

  17. LOL John... the deputy to erm, Mrs Lamont. Erudite? uh huh, good one. Eloquent? hmmm yeah sure. Intelligent? eeeeerm... Ok. Photogenic? Ok now you're having a joke...

  18. Yes, a good piece of research by both Stu and the contributor, CH.

  19. TRIS

    Brownlie had go on me blog over 'that' pic
    so to shut him up i deleted said pic
    still agreee wit it though

  20. Niko: it was a bad pic. I'm not surprised you got into serious trouble with Mr Brownlie.

    If you're not careful he'll stop paying for mrs Niko to go to the bingo!

  21. LOL... I know Niko, you just pretend to be...

    1. I know Niko, you just pretend to be... doublespeak champion of the world with knobs on.

  22. Oh Dear Niiko is easy suckered if he thinks that the Tories are going to take the UK out of the EU. Cameron is just playing to his backbenchers. It was the BANKERS who set up the EU - All of the political parties are controlled by the BANKERS so NONE of them will be giving a referendum on coming out of the EU. Labour and the Lib-Dems are already against it and so is Cameron and neither will the SNP even if they get independence.

    All of the political parties are playing the BANKERS games - the illegal Admiralty Law system I posted about over at mine - and the BANKING system that we are under that was set up by the BANKERS and their political puppets which is DELIBERATELY trashing our economies and ROBBING the people of their wealth.

    The BANKERS are going to bring down the entire financial system just as soon as their political puppets disarm the American people and THEIR solution is going to be a World Government ruled by THEM instead of "incompetent politicians" that were put in by them deliberately cause all of this.

    There is NO independence for ANY country just now under these systems and there won't be under ANY political party - ask yourself why the SILENCE on these scams by the parties. Wakey Wakey and stop fighting each other over something that s NOT going to happen until we all start fighting the real enemies who are keeping everyone divided -the BANKERS/ILLUMINATI.

  23. Labour for independence are misguided comrades who unfortunately choose to ignore their internationalist obligations.

    The separatist cause can have them, we don't need them in the party.

    1. This party!

      I am sure you will elucidate on your wild assertions learnt in your educational upbringing rather than actual facts from your working experience in the wider world.

  24. What's happened to 'snaps on Sunday'.

    We the undersigned demand our fix of the 'ridiculous Being Ridiculed'.........

  25. Why is it the Labour version if Internationalism stops at the borders of the UK?

    And neglects totally the international links the SNP has made, and which his fellow democrat, Lord Foulkes, tried to stop them making using legislation.

    And if Dean wants to get ahead in Labour, he'd better watch his use of words like 'Comrade', not popular in today's Labour Party.

  26. Billy

    Er! Think you mean to say capitalism

    1. No I did not mean to say capitalism - It is the same people, the BANKERS, that were behind communism as well. It is the BANKERS that are the driving force of the ILLUMINATI which also includes ROYALTY, the VATICAN etc.

  27. Billy. I know politicians are controlled by money... but I'm inclined to agree agree with Niko. It's capitalists in general, and not the bankers exclusively who own them.

    1. It is the BANKERS that control and own practically EVERYTHING Tris. The people who run the big corporations are just front men for them.

  28. Dean:

    The LFI members are far closer to the original principles of Labour than Lamont, Sarwar, Murphy and Miliband have ever been. They don't need you in the party.

  29. Ahhh I am chastened, Boorach...

    Monochromes (and polychromes) on Monday will be yours tonight!

  30. LOL Anon. He'll use the dreaded "S" word next and be blown to kingdom come.

    Over and over again we discover that Labourleft their principles at the door when Mr Blair invited them to the party that pleases the millionaires in the South East of England. Mr Blair was so taken with them that he, and his friend Mr Mandelson decided to join them, Mr Mandelson (the good socialist that he is) infiltrating the House of lords on the way by becoming a Baron.

    Mr (still 'Mr' after all these years of faithful service) Davidson was happy enough to sign a Commons motion congratulating the British troops for vanquishing Napoleon at Waterloo, in a campaign that cost many lives (English as well as French), but that was OK. His act was patriotism; any mention of Bannockburn is blood lust.

    The answer to the question you asked is that Labour doesn't have any principles; it doesn't have any roots in socialism any more. it is all about grabbing the moment. And not thinking.

    They sold their place in British politics for a few titles and a very great deal of money.

    Who would ever have thought that Labour MPs would take places on the boards of nuclear companies, or banks that brought the country and more to its knees?

  31. I've only heard Alan Grogan speak once and read the letter above, from that, he appears to be more eloquent and honest than any one Scottish labour can currently field.

    That they even have Sarwar and Lamont in the 'top slots' in their Scottish organisation is a testament to labour's wider judgement or lack there-of.

  32. Hello Pa.

    There wasn't much choice. Wasn't the fragrant Davidson up for the job along with Administrator Bomber Harris...?

    And there some nonentity up against Lamont. I'd never heard of him before...

    When you think bout it they haven't any strong leadership contenders. This is probably the best argument they could use against independence.

    At some stage, when the public has had enough of Alex, or Nicola, or whoever, the choice will be that load of 4th raters for first minister.

    Alan Grogan is a guy who has stood up for what he believes in the Labour Party. I respect him for that. I wonder if he will have a role to play in the new politics of Scotland.

    After all, without instructions from London, what will happen to the likes of Lamont and Baillie, Richard Baker etc?