Apropos of nothing really... and not connected to the video, it was interesting, yesterday, to see that in the staunchly unionist Tory newspaper, The Daily Telegraph, on the day of Alistair (yawn) Darling's launch of the No Campaign (no sorry that's negative) The Better Together Campaign (that's erm, better), and in the midst of a typically biased news account, that an opinion poll, based on the government's preferred question has: Yes = 45.73%, and No = 54.27%.
There was no option for Don't Know (as of course there will not be on the day... more than 2 years in the future). Earlier in the day, the yes and no responses were running at around 50-50 and I wouldn't be surprised if there wasn't a bit of a campaign to get that situation rectified, without actually cheating.
Nonetheless, this is, I suppose a rather surprising result, even as it stands at the moment, given the political leanings of the typical Telegraph reader.
Your Independence will be swallowed up by The EU and become as undemocratic faster than in The Union, Tris.
ReplyDeleteWell, OR, that's a matter for some discussion of course, but at least the EU won't make us harbour weapons of mass destruction only miles from our biggest centre of population; won't make us go to war illegally against the express wished of the UN; won't make us punch WAY above our weight in military terms, while failing to ensure our troops have decent equipment and food and their families have houses...
ReplyDeleteIt won't make us have embassies in nearly every country in the world with ambassadors living, at our expense, a life of champagne receptions and chauffeured Rolls Royces.
And of course it doesn't actually make countries do half the stuff that the idiotic British Press suggests.
But we can change the EU if we try, instead of the idiotic way that British governments have gone about it, insulting them.
We'll probably never see eye to eye about it though...
But more importantly...how's the garden?
tris
ReplyDeleteIF the snp were to have a normal timed Referendum campaign of a few weeks. They would be crushed as it is they will only be slaughtered come 2014.
To be honest i have come to the view that Salmond will act in such a way that sabotages any referendum act.
and thus avoid the most humiliating and snp destroying outcome of a massive yes to remaining(happily) within the UK.
OR you suggest an Independent Scotland will be swallowed up by the E.U.
ReplyDeleteOnly time will tell OR. More importantly it will be the choice of the people of SCOTLAND as to whether Scotland remains in the E.U., leaves the E.U. or joins E.F.T.A.
http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/history/A0817890.html
Dream on Niko. You have obviously NEVER listened to A.S. explain why the referendum is in Autumn 2014, or perhaps you have and have decided just to ignore it!
Unfortunately I have to be the bearer of YET another piece of bad news Niko. Win or Lose the referendum, the S.N.P. will STIL be here. They will still be doing what they have ALWAYS been doing...fighting for the rights of the people of Scotland, something you will NOT find happening in either the Labour, Tory and Lib/Dem parties. Oh, wait a minute shouldn't that be RED Tory, BLUE Tory and YELLOW Tory!
Furthermore the Tories, of whatever colour, keep promising the people of Scotland jam tomorrow. Well my friend we heard that promise in the 1970's, we believed the promise then and received absolutely NOTHING! This time with the multicoloured Tories promising us jam we're not buying it.
INDEPENDENCE here we come!
ALBA gu BRATH!
I almost forgot.
ReplyDeleteNiko, if you really want to see why Scotland will be voting YES in 2014 check out these sites!
http://wingsland.podgamer.com/
http://polemic.easyweb.co.uk/the-better-together-argument
I think you will find the argument for Independence is particularly strong from the polemic site. After all when you check it out you will see that there have been 8 General Elections since 1979 during which time Scotland has always voted Labour however the government that was formed in Westminster was Labour only after THREE general elections. Not really what Scotland voted for was it?
An INDEPENDENT Scotland would ensure the Scottish government was what the SCOTTISH people voted for and NO ONE else!
ALBA gu BRATH!
Oh Niko, please....
ReplyDeleteDuring a period of flag waving mania for Her Majesty's Christmas; the London Olympics; and probably William and Kate Middleton having babies...
Nah. The government, elected by Scotland under a system set up by your lot, decided to hold the referendum in 2014, away from all this empire twaddle.
You have come to that conclusion, have you, Niko? May I ask on what basis?
Can I ask you to set out your reasoning for the benefit of the readers?
An INDEPENDENT Scotland would ensure the Scottish government was what the SCOTTISH people voted for and NO ONE else!
ReplyDeleteYes...Arbroath... and that would probably be a socialist party Niko... maybe even Labour...if they went back to being Labour instead of the warmongering, poor-bashing set of cretins they have become...
Deny it if you will Niko!
Niko
ReplyDeleteI remember you sounding off about the great Labour victory that was coming in 2010. You were so confident that you were going to cut off a part of your anatomy, are you singing contralto yet, or was that yet another Labour broken promise?
The same thing will happen in 2014 to the Labour campaign to keep David Cameron Prime Minister. Labour using Tory money to try to keep a Tory government ruling Scotland. The noise you hear is Keir Hardie turning in his grave.
Tris
ReplyDeleteNikos world is collapsing all around him. Now even Jersey are threatening to leave the toxic union.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/jun/26/jersey-threatens-independence-tax-backlash
Bitter together Better a million miles from Westminster.
Let's face it Tris, every time the Dependence Brigade open their mouth about retaining Scotland's dependence on London good old Macaroon Bar goes and opens his mouth and puts his, and D.B.'s, foot in his mouth! :lol:
ReplyDeleteLooks like the Cameroon Bar has taken his idea that Scotland CAN go it alone to heart. Looks like he has had an enlightening moment. He has seen the light. Unfortunately the phone lines between London and Edinburgh were not working yesterday so he could not inform the D.B. that the Tories have decided to "back" Independence for Scotland.
Bear in mind, dear old Cameroon Bar is slowly getting surrounded by referenda.
First there was the battle for Scotland's Referendum.
Next there was the idea of the Falklands holding a referendum.
Now we hear that Jersey might be looking to become Independent. Referendum anybody. Dave?
Indeed... I think though that Niko cut off his ears, Anon, so that he can't hear, not just Mr Hardie, but all the other real Labour men, turning in their graves.
ReplyDeleteWhat did they fight for, they must wonder. So that Blair could ape Thatcher and Cameron ape Blair. They have become one great big amorphous mass of greed and selfishness.
I spit on them all (and that's me being polite).
LOL Anon... No one wants to stay...
ReplyDeleteNext Guernsey, Isle of Man, Sark, Wales, NI, Gibraltar...
They'll only have Las Iles Malvinas left... and only till they get the oil, then I imagine they will want freedom too as London comes down on them like ton of greedy bricks... yes, I said Bricks...although....
Och, wha'd hae the pair wee sowels joab, Arbroath...?
ReplyDeleteEvidently he would.
Add to all that the fact that teh American president is not an anglophile, and he's way out of step with President Hollande, who has all the strength in Europe right now...
Nobody seems to like Dave much...
You forgot the referendum on Europe... He's got problems there. The right wing foreign haters in his party want a referendum... on the other hand the City lot don't, because they fear that London would suddenly become a desert if England were not in the EU.
He has to lie to both factions of the party at one time, and hope none of them ever meet up...
Worse still all him mates in Chipping Norton are going to be in Wormwood Scrubs soon, and then who'll lend him a horse?
Worry, worry, worry...
No wonder the poor man leaves his kids in pubs...
Oops!
ReplyDeleteI knew I'd forgotten one somewhere down the line. :lol:
I'm just trying to figure out who makes the most noise?
1. Keir Hardie spinning in his grave
2. George Osborne doing U-Turns.
Answers on a postcard to:
Niko
LOL Arbroath,
ReplyDeleteI've sent my postcard to Niko.
I heard the prize is a weekend with Alistair Darling, or the cash equivalent, 5p.
Hard one to choose... but I'll go for the cash.
WOW!
ReplyDeleteThe prize fund is THAT big.
So it's either :
1. The long sleep, courtesy A.D.
2. The HUGE cash prize
You know what they really do make the choices awfly difficult in these quizzes, don't they? :lol:
Tris
ReplyDeleteWith the Torys in England funding Labour and A Darling in bitter together the cash equivalent will be a lot higher than 5p.
Labour are rather good at spending other peoples money.
tris
ReplyDeleteThe belief There will be no snp referendum is widespread throughout the thinking community.
and the reasons for it are quite clear..
THE SNP ON ALL THE REPUTABLE EVIDENCE IS GOING TO LOOSE BIG TIME
http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/referendum-news/fears-of-new-referendum-question-row.17970815
A CONSTITUTIONAL crisis is looming between Westminster and Holyrood as Coalition sources become increasingly convinced that Alex Salmond will seek a second question on the referendum ballot pape
http://www.scotsman.com/the-scotsman/opinion/comment/brian-wilson-nationalists-opt-for-voter-confusion-1-2376690
Then, however, something very odd and extraordinary began to evolve. It was not the Unionists who raised the possibility of a second question but the Nationalists. The leadership of the party which had just won the right to put its age-old demand for independence to the democratic test discovered, without notice in its manifesto or anywhere else, that it really wanted not one question but two – the second of which would retain Scotland within the United Kingdom
And there is another theory that, by placing such emphasis on his demand for a second question, Salmond is simply orchestrating a “row” which will lead to there being no referendum at all.
Is it really possible that the SNP will be led into the absurd situation where it is not prepared to ask the straightforward question on independence unless it is allowed to ask another one which would, in any analysis, make a vote in favour of independence less likely? On 6 May, 2011, that would have seemed ridiculous. Nationalists, more than anyone else, might ponder why it no longer does..
Anon.. if they make the cash prize higher than 5p, it will be an easy choice...
ReplyDeleteAn all expenses paid weekend with Darling, or 5p is a hard choice. If they raise it to 10p then the choice is easy... Gimme the money!
:)
Arbroath: They should stop having these things. The excitement is too much.
ReplyDeleteAh Niko.
ReplyDeleteI knew I could rely on you to keep me informed about what the thinking man was erm... thinking.
I was impressed, until I saw the source from which your thinking man gets his information.
Look Niko. When you go into these things, there is a chance you will win, and a chance you will lose.
No one can predict what will happen in 2014, two years away, not even the esteemed journalists (cough) of the Scotsman and Herald...
There are too many things which can happen in the meantime.
But you surely don't think that Salmond went into this without having given thought to the fact that he might lose. Please, underestimate him all you like, but that really is pushing it too far.
All he has done is take notice of the fact that there are many polls which show that that is what the majority of Scots want and that he is surprised that the unionists haven't thought to put something formal about it.
Until recently the Liberals were a federalist party... they wanted devo max for everyone; now they are not so sure, but they are having another commission about it. Until recently Labour was happy for there to be more devolution, and I heard Cameron (despite Ruthie's line in the sand), promise undefined extra powers if only we vote NO to independence.
They are offering devo+ if not devo max (although as they won't tell us what they offer till we have voted no, we don't know how plus it is; that's the Tories for you.. a pig in a poke).
The Unionists want devo max; everyone agrees that the status quo is not good enough. They just don't want to formalise it on the ballot paper.
Silly Billy! Try not to believe what you read in the Heraldman, and don't conflate their rubbish with what the thinking man is....thinking.
:)
Oh dearie dearie me Niko, you've fallen for the oldest trick in the book!
ReplyDeleteThe Unionist supporting MSM come out and say jump and everyone jumps, except of course those of us who do not believe in the union. We say take a run and jump yersel!
What you are being blinded by with your continuous supping at the MSM table is that UNLIKE the unionist parties the Scottish government are prepared to TALK to and LISTEN to what the people of Scotland want. Cue the 5 MONTH consultation with people that resulted in OVER 20,000 responses!
After the Scottish government consultation had started dear old Dave, I can call him Dave can't I, decided that this is a good wheeze we'll run one too. Unfortunately this had a few of problems.
1. it only ran for 3 MONTHS and only achieved just over 3,000 responses.
2. Labour decided that it would be an excellent idea to inundate this consultation with responses from THEIR OWN WEBSITE.
3.The consultation results were not INDEPENDENTLY verified and assimilated into a recognisable report.
The end result is that we really learnt nothing from the Westminster consultation. However, the Scottish governments consultation is now complete and is now being analysed by an outside INDEPENDENT agency. Once this analysis has been completed the results will be presented to the Scottish government in a final report.
The Scottish government will use the Independently produced report to make their decision on how the referendum is to formatted probably sometime next year, I repeat AFTER receiving the report.
The idea of a second question has been aired by the First Minister because, as I said previously, the Scottish government is prepared to LISTEN to the Scottish people, unlike Westminster! However, and it is a VERY BIG HOWEVER, no one in the YES campaign will be campaigning for a second question, Everyone in the YES Camp will be campaigning for INDEPENDENCE!
What has ALWAYS been said regarding a second question is that if others want a second question then it is up to THEM NOT THE YES CAMP, to make the case for a second question. From what I've seen there has not been too much done by ANYONE to formulate the argument for a second question during the Scottish government's consultation. Consequently I suspect that there will not actually be a second question.
Before you get on your high horse about there being polls saying that this percentage or that percentage want a second question remember the ONLY answers being considered are those given in the consultation. ANY polls taken either during or after the consultation are meaningless as far as making any decision about Autumn 20124!
Secondly there would have had to have been a recognised formulated argument pushing for Devo whatever. ( that's the second question by the way!) We did not get a formally recognised, by ANYONE, argument and reasoning for the second question so it looks to me that we will having a straight YES/NO question in 2014. However, it is only AFTER the Scottish government has reviewed the INDEPENDENT report on the Scottish government's consultation will we know for sure!
Good summation there Arbroath...
ReplyDelete