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Well, that worked marvellously well for us, that 1979 thing. Listen to another Eton Tory Boy, Earl Home, Sir Alec Douglas Home, Lord Home, or whatever, when he promised us more... Of course we didn't actually say no, we said yes, but we hadn't counted on perfidious unionists wanting to count the dead and the uninterested as being on their side. (For further information on this count through the cemeteries see here.)
So they did all the above to us and a very great deal more.
We got 18 years of Tory rule that we didn't vote for and that devastated our country, threw our people on scrap heaps and destroyed communities across the country from one side to the other and from islands to borders.
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| 1979 |
Then we got Tory light for a further 13 years, and although a few things got better, not much did. And even when it did, it wasn't much better. Then, when the south of England tired of the New Labour experiment, we got Old Etonians running the place again. Sod all to do with us, of course. We voted the way we had been voting for years.
Now we have Nigel Farage's Ukip showing the way to the Tories, scared stiff that the colonels and their memsahibs in the shires are getting sick of wishy washy Cameron.
The Labour Party, having elected Red Ed as their leader, are going out of their way to show the City and the South East that, in fact, they can be just as heartless as uncaring as the Tories.
The Liberals...oh dear, what can you say. By the next election I reckon that they will have more or less disappeared; at least no one will take them seriously, unless, of course, they need a half dozen extra members who will sell their principles for a redbox between them at the next election.
Labour promises more devolution if we just say no. They won't say what that "more" is, because they know perfectly well what the situation is. There can be no more significant devolution unless the English agree to it...and clearly they won't. Anything that will advantage Scotland will disadvantage England, and turkeys don't vote much for Thanksgiving or Christmas.
The Tories have set up a commission under some hereditary lord, which guarantees, of course, that it will be totally in touch with the needs and desires of Mrs McTumshie down the road there... Well it might have more of a chance of being, if only it would meet. But what seems like about a year after it was announced, it hasn't. Thomas Galloway
Dunlop du Roy de Blicquy Galbraith, 2nd Baron Strathclyde, CH, PC, for I think it is he who is to chair it, appears to have other, more important things to do.
The Liberals seem to have had convention after convention, headed by every well known Liberal Scot there is...Steele, Campbell. I'm expecting Joe Grimond to be asked to rise from the dead to chair yet another one any day now...except of course it doesn't much matter what they think. They won't have the power to institute it.
As arch unionist Andrew Neil said, if we say no this time, not only will they not give us anything; they will probably attempt to take things away.
In theory, of course, the powers handed to Edinburgh in 1999 were done so on the back of a referendum, and it would seem unlikely that they could be easily taken back, but never ever underestimate the perfidy of a nation which has no constitution and makes things up as they go along to suit the elite. They aren't called the Perfidious Albion for nothing.
I'm just hoping that we don't give them the opportunity to try it.
1979 was the first time I ever voted. I'm not likely to forget it.
ReplyDeleteAn oldie like me knows only too well the devastation that followed. I just hope younger folk understand how bad it will get if they vote NO.
It's what makes Gordon brown's slogan..."Ditch the Tories, not the Union", so silly.
DeleteWe CAN'T ditch the Tories, although we ditched the Tories.
Before he came up with that one he should have considered that fact.
he might also like to point out what the hell the difference is between the Tories and Labour. So far all we have heard is Ed Balls and Ed Miliband agreeing that they will do everything that the Tories have done and they will reverse nothing.
So what's the point of having them? It is just the same sh*t in a different bucket.
Vote Yes and get shot of the Westminster mafia.
ReplyDeleteVote No, get nothing except royally shafted and pillaged with Holyrood being castrated, because UKIP wants it, the Tories like the idea and Labour thinks that it is a damn good idea too. Who care what the LibDem thinks
Another pointer to the difference between the countries, if it were needed. UKip are doing fantastically well in England. In a by-election here UKip did disastrously badly. Whatever they say about the increase in their vote, they lost their deposit.
DeleteIt was the perfect time to hit the Scottish government. The death of a man who had, by being a damned good MSP, had raised his vote from the 500 majority when he took the seat from Labour in 2007, to 7,000 at the last election.
That together with a government which has now been in power for 7 years. Mid term.
It was begging for a defeat, and given how crap the normal opposition is; a rudderless, vacuous, quasi Tory Party, and the fact that the Liberals cooked their goose in the same oven as Cameron(and that the Scottish Liberals have stuck by Cleggy through thick and thin, and done nothing to disassociate themselves from the Tory misery), you would have expected a big surge in UKip's vote. Maybe not enough to take the seat, but enough to make us all think again.
And there they were...lost deposit.
And a lost deposit party is pointing the direction of the Westminster Tory government, which has one Tory seat in Scotland... and is pursuing largely Tory policies.
Wag the Dog
DeleteExactly
DeleteAll logic, sense and knowledge of affairs points to people voting yes, all BBC and mainstream press points to people voting no.
ReplyDeleteQuick explanation of the 40% rule for those who might not know... http://fazzledown.blogspot.co.uk/2012/11/brace-yourselves.html
If not that, then shameless self-promotion on my part.
Besides that, I am concerned what will happen if people do vote no when they realise they did so on the back of a pack of lies.
It was, Pa, neglectful on my part not to offer further explanation on the perfidy in question on that particular matter. I have corrected that now by putting your link in body of the story. :)
DeleteShameless self promotion? You? Oh hardly.
Your last point is one that I have thought about quite a lot. The Scots are a pretty peaceable lot (if you take out Friday nights, football matches and religion). But if we are lied to and sold down the river then who knows what will happen.
This is probably why the Better Together and Better Together But Separate from the Tories aren't actually promising anything solid.
All they do is spread fear: You'll need a passport to go to see your granny in Carlisle; You won't be able to phone London without huge roaming charges; there will be border posts and guards; it will cost you money to drive on English roads; you won't be able to post a letter (does anyone do that anymore); you won't have an army because no one will join a little tin pot organisation that never goes to war; you can't afford spies; you won't have embassies; you'll have to keep the nuclear weapons but you won't be allowed to keep them because you're not a first ranking country like US adn UK; you'll not get into the EU; you will get into the EU and they will force the crumbling € on you (just like they didn't do with Croatia); you'll have to renegotiate the Treaty of Bechuanaland, with the Tribal Chiefs and then 7000 other treaties that wee Willie Rennie unearthed himself; you'll not be a member of the world food organization or the world health organization; you'll have to start a national library and a national museum; you'll have to have somewhere for the Queen to stay when she's in Edinburgh... etc etc.
Nothing about what we will actually get. Just we'll make sure you get new responsibilities. Not sure what ones.
That way we can't say..."you lied", if we vote no.
That could be the problem for us. We can't prove that we would have been better apart. And as life gets worse and worse and more and more resources go to London under Ukip led governments, we won't actually notice any difference. They will always be able to say... "but what if you had had to join the Euro!"
Don't forget that the Tories 1979 manifesto promised devolution!
ReplyDeleteIt said: "We are committed to discussions about the future government of Scotland"
By that Mrs Thatcher clearly meant no discussions at all whatsoever, either that or discussions of the silent variety! So Mrs Thatcher started off by doing a U-turn and it was never mentioned again.
"We are committed to discussions about the future government of Scotland"
DeleteThe didn't lie. They discussed it. Someone suggested some more power for the Scottish Office. Thatcher said NO NO NO, and that was it.
Interesting to think that she started on a u-turn though.
Vieille peau! Oh how she would have hated to be insulted in French!
Mrs Thatcher probably discussed it with herself while having one of her electric baths!
ReplyDeleteI'd have gladly helped her to an electric bath by throwing a 2 bar fire into the water. Shocking!
DeleteHURRAH!
ReplyDeleteI've FINALLY found THE reason why we are better together.
Thank you so much Project Fear!
http://wingsoverscotland.com/british-together/
Silly English people being a bit racist...
ReplyDeleteBest ignored.
But I think that as someone suggested Mr ffoulkes should see this.
And they have the GALL to call US racist?
DeleteMaybe we should run a competition to see who can come up with the best Ffoulkes response. lol :-)
Hic!
DeleteThey'll respond with the 'Lunatic Fringe' gambit plus the kind of reason & logic used to link any support for Scottish Nationalism does not apply to support for British Nationalism.
ReplyDeleteFfoulkes etc would bluster out something along the lines of "...well this is not an example of mainstream Britain, its probably nationalists invading decent and benevolent twitter accounts of good British people blah blah blah..."
Personally, in line with the in-bred 'British' sense of entitlement, the idea of a non-English Brit winning Wimbledon has these arseholes so enraged amuses me greatly.
It would be even funnier - if Murray did win - he turned round and rubbed it in the faces of the dafties making these statements on twitter. But as we know, different rules apply to Scots - Scots are not allowed to do that sort of thing because its anti-English.
Other than that, its a marker of how insecure the modern Brit is with their national identity and place in the world.
Yeah...probably, and I have to be honest, there are Scots who utterly detest the English. And THEY are not the mainstream independence supporters.
DeleteIn fact some probably don't even want independence.
I remember being threatened by a drunk numpty in a pub, when I was with a crowd of Spanish and French people, and one other Scot, because to this drunken idiot's ears, i sounded English.
Fortunately the other Scots lad there with me was built like a brick outhouse and when he stood up, the drunken bigot decided it might be better if he drank at another part of the bar.
But I'm trying to imagine an outburst on Twitter like that over Jenson Button or Lewis Hamilton, both of whom I've cheered on, because they are English.
I hope, obviously, that Andy wins and in his "boring" interview (they are right about that...his interviews are boring, but so are Federer's and Rafa's) he mentions the detractors, while drying himself of a Saltire towel!
Tris
ReplyDeleteGood post. I have actually found the last week or so very interesting although I must admit have not followed things as much as I would like as have been really busy at work.
I think the drip of information regarding defence, in particular, TA bases shows the Tories to be hollow in their claims about Scotland's place in the union, not that some of us didn't know that anyway, but either way the fact is they can't defend it. Bet Davidson is happy that there is a recess given how much she bangs on about serving in the TA, although I'm not sure dinner lady counts.
We have then had the YES Campaign using the project fear term for bitter together which has put them right on the back foot to the extend that, it would appear or is just me, that there has been an ever so slight shift in the media. Even Brewer on Nighnight the end bit has grown , if not a pair, then one ball and is actually starting to challenge the Unionists. Although would rather have the Fraser woman any day, at least she had integrity. The Labout MP on the programme saying that it wasn't up to him what extra devolution is going to be offered, and just not answering the question made him look stupid and it was good to see him squirm although the YES camp evaded the questions to an extend and should just answer that this is what we think but circumstances change.
Vince Cable did what he does best, the man who didn't predict the banking crisis, put his foot in it again and is becoming the Osbourne of the Liberals. I don't count Alexander as he is Tory through and through now. Not just the mobile phone gaff but saying that things will be more expensive like posting a letter, all silly and I am starting to hear people say we own a part of that and laughing at how absurd it is.
Yesterday I was following the Murray match on twitter and the abuse to him personally and about Scotland in general was unreal, while it will not be reported, I am going to have to try and encourage some people to look at some of it.
So an interesting week, I think/hope that people are starting to see through the fear and asking questions. I am so glad that the SNP set a long timetable, the British propoganda machine is huge, the best in the world aided by the BBC. Look at the bugging issue, the UK are so wrapped up in that, it looks like some of the EU want an investigation into the extent of Americas spying on so called allies, Cameron must be shitting himself.
Bruce
Yes, Bruce. I thought it a mistake to have such a long campaign, but I can see now that I should never have doubted the political nous of Eck.
DeleteIn this first year the No campaign has resorted to lies to get their scare stories across. Time after time they have shown themselves to be running scared because of this. If you have something to scare us with ...then scare us with it.
They have shown themselves to be racist. Mrs Curren (and she's not the only one) going on about "foreigners" like they were some sort of much under their shoe, blowing a big fat hole in international socialism.
The UK government could find out tomorrow what the situation is regarding Scotland's future in the EU... but it won't, because it knows that the answer is that Scotland would apply from within, and be accepted as meeting all the criteria, economic stability, democratic government, human rights, etc. And one big scare story would disappear, whilst leaving the gaping hole of the rUK situation of England vote to come out.
As for Cameron... awww shame. I wonder if he will be the first (and only) western leader to trot out to Egypt and congratulate the new president... or did he learn his stupid lesson?
New Labour was not Tory. New Labour did more for us LGBTers than any previous govt except Labour of 1960s.
ReplyDeleteIt did more about normative cultural change in social attitudes than ever before.
It introduced radical constitutional changes, minimum wages, European court of human rights, anti-hate bills and equal adoption rights for same sex couples.
How the hell is any of that Tory?
It may not be socialist, but it is most definitely a social democratic legacy.
Dean
DeleteThe UK had no choice but to sign up to ECHR or they were out of the EU. This legislation then meant that the then fake Labour government had to change equality legislation within a set timescale, I think 2015 is the date for states to legislate. Likewise anti hate, adoption rightes etc would all then change either way whatever party were in power as they would be challenged in court in Strazburg. Labour I am afraid were dragged screaming into the legislation, like wise at Holyrood where I belive they may vote ammendments to Love Equally or did do.
No I would say that attitudes are changing in general as the older generation pass away and the 70's generation comes forth. I would also say that the hard work of LGBT in Scotland in partnership with orgs like the SYP has done more to change attitudes than Labour the fake ever did.
So sorry, from equal rights to devolution TB and GB resisted all the way but were on a loser as they were told to bring about devolution by europe and equal rights.
Bruce
I really don't think that you can judge the performance of a government on one part of their policies, Dean.
DeleteI agree that there was some good legislation, equality and devolution amongst it, but as I understand it, and as Bruce points out, most of that legislation was initiated by the EU or the Council of Europe.
They brought back a minimum wage, it's true. But it was the lowest in Europe, and it was in the face of people being employed by the likes of fast food outlets at less than £1 an hour, which even the rich thought was a bit unfair.
The minimum wage is still utterly unlivable on, and indeed one of the causes of such massive social security bills. People work full time on this pathetic wage, and have to be subsidised by social security for rents which can be as much as £17,000 a year for a couple of rooms in a divided house.
As for devolution. Blair made it clear that he wanted only the minimum of power devolved and a system in place which would (or should) mean Labour would always have the whip hand. He called it a Parish Council (which we don't have in Scotland). He wanted to appoint his own First Ministers in Wales and Scotland. Unfortunately the Welsh had their own ideas about that and threw the weak and indecisive bag boy he sent them back to him. He used to send Lance Price, incognito, to Scotland to sort out Donald Dewar when he started to stray from the policies of the Downing Street sofa.
Mandelson has made it clear that they realised all along that they must prove to the City, to London and to the South East that they would govern with that area at the forefront. Which is why they gave the City a free hand, and look where that landed them, or rather us.
Now they move farther and farther to the right, agreeing with the Tories on all their major cuts. THEY set up the appalling ATOS contracts. They admit they were wrong on immigration (to please the crowd that now follow UKIP).
Ed Balls and Ed Miliband are aware that unless they look like they are going to continue to apply Osborne and Cameron's (failed) policies, they won't be electable by the elite of the SE...
@Bruce
ReplyDeleteThe Project Fear moniker was coined by BT themselves.
I didn't know that Jutie. That was a tad silly of them wasn't it?
DeleteIt was in a Herald article.
DeleteThanks:)
DeleteIm sure the Rev mentions it in his Project Fear srticle.
ReplyDeleteIt shows the mindset of some of our fellow Scots thst they can joke about frightening voters into a No.
As long as they get the result they want, they don't care who they get it...
ReplyDeleteProbably a mistake. We all have to live here afterwards.