Wednesday, 7 November 2012


Stewart Hosie
For heaven’s sake.

We know that the Westminster government will do anything in its power to make Scotland look like it is subsidized by all these nice Englishmen and women.

We also know from numerous examples from the Olympics to Badger Killing that Whitehall and accurate figures are utter strangers the one to the other.

But this is beyond a joke.

The UK Treasury has issued figures that appear to show that Scotland cost the taxpayer more than other parts of the UK.

They showed that Scots got £10,088 of government cash each and Londoners got only £9,613.

But what the Treasury didn't bother to mention was that whilst the London figures were based on the 2011 census, the Scottish figures were based on the 2001 census.

Had they taken the time to ensure that the figures were based upon the same year’s population numbers they might, they would, have found a very different story.

But then that wouldn't have suited Danny Alexander in last week's attack on Scottish Independence.

Stewart Hosie, the SNP shadow chancellor in Westminster called the figures “a dodgy dossier” and went on to say: “This report is a con, no more than an attempt to deceive the Scottish people. Scotland more than pays its way. No amount of fiddled figures in a dodgy dossier will change that.”

Why do the London authorities do this? Seriously no one really believes that they are so incompetent that they can't tell the difference between 2001 and 2011. The information must have been stored quite separately  So it was a fiddle. They cheated. They lied. 

It’s incredibly insulting to intelligent people to expect them to believe this nonsense. The trouble is that the more they lie, the less we will believe anything they say.

If they want to encourage people to stay with the UK they could try to find some truthful advantages in our doing so. That they seem to depend singularly on lies suggests to me that there are no real advantages.

But it does tell me that they must want our wealth very much to go to these extremes.


  1. Tris,

    This follows on from your previous one regarding the McCrone report so nothing much has changed over the years. Deceitful then and deceitful now. I suspect we'll see many more examples of this over the next two years.

  2. Tris

    The most important part of the dodgy dossier as far as I am concerned is the glove puppet that the torys used to deliver the message.

    Yes that well known tory yes man, Mr lost deposit at the next general election Alexander.

    Just proves once again that there are no Liberal Democrats at Westminster that Scots should trust.

  3. I think it's important to expose every lie we see, or hear about, John, because as you say they are going to be at it non stop lying through their teeth for the next two years, because they have nothing truthful to say.

    The best they can promise is more cuts; more misery; and more Tory rule, even if Ed Miliband is the prime minister. And let's be honest, that's not much of a selling point, is it?

  4. Old Danny has been a real creep to the Tories, Dubs. I don't know how he shows his face in his constituency.

    I suspecting that he may be wanting an English conservative seat at the next election.

    He could have Mad Nad's. I can't see her being selected again...

  5. tris

    “I detest that man, who hides one thing in the depths of his heart, and speaks forth another”


  6. tris

    Old Danny is like Nadine and sees his future outwith Parliament.
    His CV has Chief Secretary to the Treasury on it now Impressive to some.
    Danny certainly knows how to butter his parsnips with great big knobs of good English butter.
    although its getting a bit more tough in the city of London in these days of austerity.

  7. Aye Niko...

    That about sums Danny up... or maybe he really is, and always was a Tory, but didn't think it was a good career move in Scotland... Mind you, he wouldn't have chosen the Liberals either, would he?

    That Homer is pure brilliant too...

    Didn't he say...

    "Donuts mmmmmmmmmmmmm"

  8. Oh yes, Niko, a job in the Bank of England might be just the thing for him. That almost invariably comes with a knighthood and ends with a seat on red benches.

    Lord Danny of Nowhere has a ring to it, don't it?

  9. tris

    All me longish life I have seen Politicos start on the hard left(and other places) and slowly and surely.

    drift more and more to the right till eventually they live in the big house on the top of the hill and rage against the greedy working man.

  10. thats part of being a unionist betrayal treachery and broken promises.The road of the Union is strewn with them But then we expect it.

  11. Yep, I guess that's true, Niko.

    Just as it is human nature to want to do the best for yourself and your own that you can...

    ...and rail against anyone who wants to redistribute your wealth, (even though you once desperately wanted to redistribute what your predecessor had).

  12. Erm Taz... have you got him in a trace... He's talking like a Nat... HELP...!

  13. tris

    you should read this Dan Hannan big w'nker

    they lost but won but lost and won
    made me laugh

    If fiscal conservatives can't win in the US, can they win anywhere?

    Nah they lost

  14. Well, it seems all these Americans were wrong and Mr Hannan was right!

    It seems they didn't get the presidency; didn't get the senate, and lost some ground in the House. They lost out in state elections too.

    Partly I'd say because women didn't want to go back 50 years, which was what they perceived the GOP as proposing on abortion and rape legislation.

    They were also a bit worried that Ryan would dismantle medicare and medicare and Obamacare, and let the 47% dies in agony for the want of painkillers. Well, OK, I exaggerate a little, but it was his plan to starve healthcare of funds, so that the uber rich could have tax cuts and the military wouldn't have to be reduced at all.

    What is it with these little boys and their guns?

    If Danny is reading this, (he may not have woken up after last night), he'll tell you how much the Democrats have won...

    And the best is that Barack Obama will be able to appoint some Supreme court judges and save the court from becoming a right wing over chamber of government.

  15. The problem with the No campaign is that there is no justifiable reason for us to remain in that corrupt system so lies is all they have to offer. Popped another pic back in the other thread tris which will come in handy sometime.

  16. Thanks CH...

    Yes, exactly.

    You can have 40 years more of this same stuff... wow... brilliant...what a selling point.

  17. Tris

    I believe that a prominent LibDem "minister" in Scotland has moved his family to England.

    That leaves just Mickey Moore and Danny Alexander as the usual suspects.

    Danny hasn't a snowball's chance in hell of keeping his seat nevermind that it is one scheduled for elimination in Cameroons seat reduction plan. He would have to bid for the new proposed constituency seat against bon viveur Kennedy, who my not hold it either.

  18. On the where will they go, I think Clegg will jump ship before the next Westminster GE, job done. The LibDems reduced to a phone box conference in England and 4th in the rUK

    Clegg will get the job as Assistant Commissioner of the EU, where he always wanted to be. It was the only other job he ever had and I use the word job generously.

  19. That's interesting news. Although in fairness to Alexander, if I were a minister in the treasury in London, I'd probably do the same (assuming I wanted to see my wife and kids).

    He must be there all week, and probably often at the weekends too. Besides, given how incredibly unpopular the government (and he) is it is probably better for them to be somewhere a bit more anonymous.

    Moore's case would be less acceptable. I've no idea where he is MP, but you would have thought that he would spend quite a bit of time in Scotland... what with that being his job. He must, I imagine, have some sort of office in London.

    In that respect, I was wondering about the continued use of Dover House as the Scotland Office in London.

    It must be far too big for its purpose, once having held a wide range of ministers with a wide range of functions in the running of Scotland. it now has Michael and Fluffy, rattling about with nothing much to do except think up lies about how pathetic and stupid we all are and how we would be bankrupt before the Queen's signature was dry on the Independence papers.

    Maybe we could move them into more appropriate accommodation in London. That would save money which could be spent on something more useful.

  20. I don't know what Clegg's polling figures look like in Sheffield, Wolfie, but it certainly would be embarrassing for a party leader to lose his seat. (It nearly happened to Iain Gray.)

    Forecasts a few months ago put the Liberals on about 9 or 10 seats at the next election. Of course 2 years is a very long time in politics, but I don't see things changing much.

    Essentially, although the Liberals have taken the hard edge off some of the Conservative policies, they have failed completely to make any BIG impact. In short everything they said they would do has come to nothing at the hands of the perfidious Eton boy.

    The economy is tanking, despite what the idiot Osborne says to the contrary, and he can produce fiddled statistics all he likes, most of us are feeling worse off as wages freeze (except for the top people who get rises of 28%), inflation of 2.5% is la la land for most of us, and they are trying to get us to volunteer to do things that people should be paid to do.

    So I can't see Cleggie's constituents being that happy with him.

    Actually, I hope we have nothing to do with it by this time, but Clegg would be good at the EU. Let's face it Ashton is a complete waste of space, and at least Clegg is enthusiastic, and speaks about 5 languages fluently. The last time I saw Ashton making a speech, she was struggling with English.

  21. I believe there is a vacant public toilet or two in Westminster shut down after Edward Heath's days which could be useful we cottage for Mickey and his team.

  22. Niko,

    I seem to recall that when I made reference to "comrades" going from being left wing to rabid right-wing you ridiculed my comment. I think the plethora of sensible nat comments on here are having the desired effect.

    Mr N was telling me, in the strictest of confidence, that you have stopped snarling and slavering at our comments and are now saying "Yes, I think they're right and the Better Together campaign is rapidly turning Bitter"!

  23. Michael Moore is my MP, here, in the sunny Scottish Borders. Before the 2010 election I wrote a letter to the local newspaper saying how much I respected Mr Moore, but detailing the reasons why I wouldn't be voting for him. I trust I won't have to bother writing any letters in connection with a 2015 Westminster election regarding his putative lordship.

  24. Re Danny moving house It is not so long ago he flipped his main home from London to Aviemore even though at that time his wife had a job in London and his child attended either nursery or school in London
    I commented at the time that given the family circumstances how could he claim his main home was Aviemore (his wife had not left her job as far as I am aware) so it meant her travelling from her main home to work in London

    Of course as we all know the house flipping was a scam to refurbish and refurnish

  25. I think the Cleggie's seat is also up for elimination.

    Shoe in to EU, the deal has been done.

  26. “No man shall have the right to fix the boundary to the march of a Nation.”

    Charles Stewart Parnell

    Herman Van Rompuy,


    The word of the future is union

    "France has said that any enlargement of the EU will require a referendum in France."

    Oh well thats that then no joining the EU for Salmomdlanders

  27. One heard, Wolfie, that after mr Heath's demise, there were several MPs and Lords who took possession of his cottages.

  28. John: Did Mrs Niko say anything else (in the strictest confidence of course)?

  29. Hello EricF...nice to see you.

    I'm told that we will indeed have to vote in another election, but fortunately (all being as we expect it to be), it will be our last.

    Apparently, after the referendum it will take some time to divvy up the debts and the credits to Scotland for those things which we have helped pay for and yet will no longer be able to call ours.

    So we will still have representatives at Westminster at this time, presumably to ensure we get a good deal.

    I'd hope that if Michael Moore is still there (and its a pretty safe seat for him, so he may well be), he will be doing his very best as an ex-SOS to get a good deal for us.

  30. Fairforfochen:

    It's a total 'flipping' joke. They shouldn't be allowed to do it at all. Their main home is in their constituency. They should have a little flat in London as a second home.

    I still don't know why we don't buy a tower block in London and let them use apartments in it as a residence for MPs. That would save them having second homes at all.

  31. Ha ha... well, that should save him some embarrassment, Wolfie.

    If his seat disappears he can leave with the appearance of dignity in tact.

    Still, he'll be known as the guy who put the Liberals back 50 years.

  32. I'm not sure that mr Van Rompuy's opinion counts for very much.

    The law will be the law.

    The amusing thing is that the right wing of the Tory party who hate the EU and want us to be part of America, because Americans are the only kind of foreigners that they can abide (and only then in small doses), are going to push Camergoon into a referendum about the UK's continued membership of the EU.

    If the English vote to come out then we will be out anyway, and none of this fuss will have been worth anything.

    As someone said Mr President said that Scotland would languish outside the EU... that would be like Norway and Switzerland, Liechtenstein and Iceland?

    I could easily languish like any of them.

  33. tris

    Yeah Alex is like the ruler of the Universe he decides everything everywhere.
    Why he is leader of the EU NATO the United nations chairman of HEARTS king of the north sea lord of wind power master of renewables.

    He is like a God of the north an oracle from which all truth flows....

    Or lying nat fantasist bastard as many good people see him

  34. What's that got to do with anything Niko?

    BTW, who are these "good people" who see Alex like that?

    How do you know any good people (with the exception of Mrs N, obviously?

    What's gonna win the 2.10 at Fontwell tomorrow?

  35. tris and all the Nats

    As John Stewart shows you Nationalists inhabit the same psychological landscape as the religious republican right.

    You have the same response to reality
    although your politics is opposite.
    The withdrawal from and denial of any provable reality is identical and equally laughable.

    you must watch

  36. He suffers from Lamontititus tris afflicts lovers of WMD over the plight of the poorest in society. I hear that Purcell has been admitted to hospital after going on the binge with a liver complaint.

  37. Hi tris

    Sorry to hear we may still need another Westminster election in 2015. If we want the best deal from London, though, why on earth would anybody vote for the characters who've run an entire campaign declaring what a weak position we'd be in as an independent nation, how much we need Auntie Westminster to look after us, how we jist cannae dae it and here's a list of 500 other things we'll no be able to manage.

    Vote Michael and co and negotiate from as weak a position as possible! I trust 2014 will see the last of "Moore is less"!!

  38. LOL Jon Stewart is funny Niko...

    The Republicans are funny too.

    I think, though you are right when you say we don't have the same policies. The Republicans are more like britnats. Sarah Palin (looking a bit rough) is pretty much like Mrs Lamont. She's always banging on about something-for-nothing too.

    And Dave is just like Mitt; he's a mormon, except he's short of the middle M.

  39. I knew there was something wrong with him CH.

    As for Purcell, what a bloody idiot.

  40. Yes you're right EricF. They are a poor bunch to be negociation our situation. I suspect the Scottish government will be the one that has to make the decisions.

    But as we will still be subject to their pensions/social security/defence/wars/ foreign policy and pile of other things, we will still have to pay taxes to the London Treasury... and we'll have to have some representation otherwise they will treat us even worse that the do already.

  41. UK Treasury Chief Danny Alexander claimed the figures were proof of the benefit of Scotland remaining in the Union.

    The Lib Dem MP said: “These new figures show the people of Scotland continue to see a real financial benefit from being part of the UK

    Which actually should read
    The Lib Dem MP said: “These new figures show the that the Lib Dem's of Scotland continue to see a real financial benefit from being part of the Tory Party. I Pledge to give my allegiance to whoever puts the most money in my offshore accounts and if i am telling lies i will say "I'm Sorry" as our frontman Quisnick did."

  42. LOL Nice one Deewal.

    It's bang on too.

    If he used these figures, and the amount that we GET more than we GIVE as a reason to stay IN the union, then surely, when the figures show that we GIVE more than we GET, the opposite is true, and there IS a benefit to leaving the union.

    Of course if we are going to talk figures, then we would also need to add in the financial benefit of not pretending that we still run the world to that list of benefits.

  43. tris

    Ole Dan Hannan Wank'r not so much doing somersaults as whirrlygigs its so funny.....More so than Arbroath trying to be all growed up(naughty naughty haha)

    You simply must read

    He just cant accept they lost Capitalism isnt dead but unregulated uncontrolled unaccountable free??? markets have had a massive kick in the balls .

    Many of those conservatives are now in a state of stunned despair. They gave it their best shot and lost. As a commenter in the National Review put it:

    "We put up an impressive, mainstream guy with super credentials, who did well in the debates and was amply funded. The result? A repeat of 2008, basically. If I'd known it would turn out like this, I would have backed a Gingrich-Palin ticket. More fun, less expensive – same result."

    Conservatives the world over need to grasp the difference between being pro-market and being pro-business. Sometimes the two positions happen to coincide; often they don't.

    Apropos london fiddles what about Gideons new wheeze

    Listen on wireless radio 4 today and thy said we will get the Business editor to explain.
    as we don't understand it.
    To whit Jonty bloom replied no I dont think i understand that much myself

    I call that classic

    London fiddles and some more

  44. tris

    it just gets better i've wet meself laughing Mrs Niko said what you laughing at

    Thereafter, the Treasury will in effect pay just 0.5% interest on whatever stock of its debt is still held by the APF (if you have lost the will to live by this stage, I don't really blame you).

  45. Hey Niko...

    I'm just heading out to my mums for something to eat, but i had time to read the Peston piece... and you/he was dead right, the ill to live was ebbing away, pretty fact.

    I looked for the conclusion and found:

    "this is an immensely complicated renegotiation of a contract between the Bank of England and the Treasury whose real economic impact is fairly trivial."...

    That pretty much sums it up.

    I don't know that I would wet myself laughing, but I fear i am falling into a pit of despair.

    I'll get to your other links when I get home. Maybe they will make me lauigh till I...well, whatever.

    I like the fact that no one at all seems to understand what they are doing. Clearly they don't.

    But it will be a fiddle no matter how it works out... and someone somewhere is undoubtedly making a lot of money out of it. And that person is probably a friend of the Tories, maybe even a donor ?

  46. tris

    the written word does not always carry the meaning of the spoken word.
    them on the wireless wuz like scratching there heads(befuddled as peston says.
    Trying find a way of explaining Gideons conundrum which they couldn't grasp.

    that was funny believe me

  47. err enjoy meal wid mum give her me love and from taz as well

  48. Thanks Niko.

    It was awfully good, but I've eaten FAR too much. As usual.

    Also apologies for terrible spelling mistakes above. I was in a real hurry!

    I was thinking that the Americans built their republic on low taxation, but that was because they were being taxed by London and getting NOTHING in return. It seems to me that if you get something in return taxation isn't too bad.

    They don't like the bank bailouts? Well neither do I. The poor are paying for the rich to be rescued. True. They are however, it seems, perfectly happy to have tax cuts for the very best off and make the recipients of Medicaid and Medicare pay for them...

    Isn't that more or less the same thing?

  49. Ha ha CH... That's epic...

  50. Niko: Dead honestly I tried to read that Guardian article...and while I could understand the words, by the time they made it into sentences they were beyond me.

    Fiddle fiddle fiddle...

    If Jonty Bloom doesn't understand it, what chance have I got.

    Maybe Taz will explain it to us...?