He joined because he was, and is, by nature or inclination both a Liberal and a Democrat. He also believed, and believes, in an independent Scotland. There are many believers in independence in the party. If you share a Liberal philosophy and believe in democracy the Liberal Democrats would seem the best place to be. And of course it can only have helped that the Lib Dems believe, or at least historically believed, in Home Rule.
Stuart Campbell and Craig Murray are two notable historically Liberal Democrat voters, strongly in favour of independence. Andrew Page is another who, whilst he would have preferred Home Rule, indicated that he would seriously consider independence if the alternative was continued Westminster dominance.
Anyway, last week Bruce took the difficult decision to leave his party. In this blog he explains his reasons for doing so and therefore I won't duplicate them here. They are, I think, a must read (and I know from your comments that some of you have already done so). It's not an easy thing to do, packing up and leaving a party that you thought you belonged in. And to do it and make it very public, suggests that they must have really hacked him off.
So many of our readers here at Munguin's Republic are ex Labour Party members, who left, disgusted with what Labour had become, particularly under Tony Blair, so I feel that many of you will feel some sort of empathy with his situation. It's not so much that Bruce has left the Liberal Democrats; more that they have left him. We've heard that so many times from so many people, most notably Jimmy Reid.
Frankly, I'm not sure that the Liberal Democrat name isn't something that the Trades Descriptions laws might cover.
Bruce has said that he will continue to blog as an individual without a party. I look forward to reading what he has to say as he moves forward.
Our referendum polarised politics in Scotland between those who wanted to put Scotland's interests first and those who didn't.
ReplyDeleteThe unionist political parties firmly nailed their colours to the latter and are now paying the price for that stance.
None of the London based parties will ever put Scotland first so the question must be for Scottish voters,what is their purpose?
Sadly all true. I say sadly, because this union did not have to be like this.
DeleteWell their fist mistake was joining the Tories in coalition. The reduced them from 16 to 5 in our parliament, and 58 to 8 in their parliament.
ReplyDeleteI don't know who else they had to choose from but Willie Rennie is a disaster.
Then they took the wrong side in the referendum, at least from their supporters' point of view... and as Bruce said, the visceral hatred of the SNP dominates their politics.
They haven't done much right
Guys
ReplyDeleteAm sick to the back teeth with all the all of the Unionist gangsta political outfits as well as the Green variant on pushing your unprincipled, opportunist luck in association with other carpetbaggers.
Roll on Holyrood in May whence we might settle the diversionary snash and get down to authentic, bare-knuckle, constitutional politics democratically expressed.
Well, it's just around the corner David, if the press could stop talking about the EU referendum for long enough to remind us.
DeleteTris, I've been reading GSM or a while and I have a great deal of sympathy for his plight. Being a member of a party always requires some compromise, but there is a limit to how many principles you can give up. I suspect that for many erstwhile Lib-Dems, including GSM that limit has been reached. The realization that you have passed the point of no return is always painful.
ReplyDeleteYes BSJ. That's the way I feel about the situation.
DeleteOf course you can't agree with everything your party does. That reflects life in general. You don't agree with everything your family does, or your friends or work colleagues do.
But when they are at complete variance with your principles, what else can you do but leave?
In my original reply sadly unpublished, I said to Bruce that whilst he might wish to be inside a political party there is no need to be so. I left the SNP way back in the eighties and nineties because of work commitments and Union duties which during that period were all because of reconstruction of local government, nd of people being made redundant. I still voted for them, I pushed their point of view when ever I was able I just did not have a membership card. Bruce needs to find his own way and I am sure he will. He will be a great help to anyone in the next Referendum with or without making that commitment. So many were not party members during the last one, many have joined but as many have not. Good on Bruce, it must have been a hard confession to make, but he is a good person and deserves all support.
DeleteNiko is an idiot but he seems to be our idiot. Cuddles to Taz.
Helena
Well said. I'm not a member of the SNP either!
DeleteTaz is lovely!
Sorry about your original reply. I don't know what happened to it. It's not here.
DeleteHopefully in May more than just Bruce will say bye to the LibDems. I enjoy his blog though and post the occasional comment (as lanark), I hope he keepsmup,the good work.
ReplyDeleteI was a Labour voter for years, my parents were Labour members and activists and my Uncle was in the Labour NEC in he Eighties. I will never vote for them again.
Gaun yersel Bruce!
All the parties should learn form what has happened in Scotland. First to the Conservatives in the 1980s and 90s when they were wiped out, then to the Liberals for joining in Conservative government in the UK, and then to Labour for being Conservatives and joining with them in Ukok.
DeleteNothing is forever.
The SNP must remember that too. Stay with your principles. Don't join with others for political gain, ministerial cars or anything else.
Tris right now there is no doubt among the membership that they will keep the High Heed YIns well and truly grounded, but I would say that give or take a few, they all have principles. The remainder of the opposition cannot spell that word and hypocrisy,they do not understand that sentiment.
DeleteI'm sure the bulk of the membership have principles.
DeleteI'm not so sure about the principles of the people at the top. Principles and Carmichael, Clegg, and that Lordy one who told us that all MPs lie, don't really go together.
Willie Rennie too. I simply don't think he's up to the job.
Anyone seen the latest yougov poll for Holyrood!
ReplyDeleteHolyrood16: SNP 70 MSPs (+1),ScotTories 25 (+10), Labour 20 (-17), Green 9 (+7) LibDem 5 (-) via YouGov March 7-10
Constituency: SNP 49%, Lab 19%, Con 19%, LD 6%, others 7%
Regional: SNP 43%, Con 19%, Lab 17%, Green 8%, LD 5%, UKIP 4%
On these numbers it's goodbye LibDems, replaced by the Greens as Scotland effective fourth party and it's goodbye SLAB, replaced by ScotCons as the second party of Scots politics. Even if this wasn't replicated precisely, with a poll sample size of 1005, SLAB are really in big trouble and LDems are history.
Opinion polls um like ALL the polls which predicted a hung parliament
DeleteAt Westminster ....no Deano your vermin Torys will not take the wooden spoon
Labour will be badly mauled but survive and now GERS has destroyed snp
economic credibility All to play for
There's something in what you both say, Dean, Niko.
DeleteOpinion polls are a snapshot. May is a long time away. There could be much change by then. Labour could elect a new Scottish leader adn be invigorated. OK, I'm joking, but it doesn't do to count chickens before the eggs are laid.
However, that poll is looking good for the Tories. It will be interesting to read what Scot Goes Pop has to say about it and how it fits in with other polls.
But, it is looking pretty disastrous for Labour and the Liberals, no matter what polls you look at.
If the tories become the second party in Holyrood it will result in non-stop tory whingeing about the second referendum. Indeed it will put Ref2 even more in the public gaze. Ref2 will thus be inevitable because of all the britnat hype.
DeleteOn the bright side, Labour will be spared the embarrassment of having it's ill informed shadows getting to repeatedly prove just how poor they are at every FMQ's.
DeleteWill it be et tu Anas on the ides of May?
Can we be assured too, that the Libdems are no longer invited onto Unionist broadcast media as if their view had mass appeal?
S.A.
Having the Tories rammed down our throats is probably not what Scots want, by and large.
DeleteI suspect that their gains, if they have any, will be due to the ineptitude of Slab and its leadership. Unionists who can no longer vote Labour may decide that the only way they will get their voices heard will be to vote Conservative.
Well, SA, if that is the result, and they become the 5th party, they will have to come behind the Greens in entitlements.
DeleteAs for Labour, we can only hope that the Tories will be a better opposition, because frankly this lot are laughable.
Niko,
ReplyDeleteIn commenting on SNP 'economic credibility' do you have any comment on the economic credibility of successive Labour and Tory government which left the UK with massive debts?
tris
ReplyDeleteexactly.
The. snp are on top of the hill time will come when they will be pushed of it kismet
ICM /Guardian – CON 36, LAB 36, LD 8, UKIP 11
14 MAR 2016
Deano
Twit
http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/9650?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+PollingReport+%28UK+Polling+Report%29
brownlie
sure they got things wrong at various times
and wot do you as a died in the wool extremist nationalis fanatic say
About the snp credibility or now lack of
Eh? What lack of credibility? Sure they ain't perfect, but at least they don't send money back to Westminster because they can't find a use for it.
DeleteIf you are referring to the GERS figures, they are not the whole picture, when it comes to Scotland's finances. They omit monies taken from Scotland used to pay for UK infrastructure, mostly in the South East of England, and Scottish exports; exported via English ports or airports.
In effect, they are economic with the truth, a fiddle as it were; exactly what Ian Lang intended, to obfuscate and paint Scotland's economy in a bad light.
Niko: It would be good to know what you thinking the economic competence of the Labour Tory and Liberals, that the UK is now £1.6 trillion in debt, with more cuts for poor Scots due this week.
DeleteYou need to take on board what Jim is saying about GERS/ It pleased the Tories to set up a system that showed Scotland in a poor light. Unionist papers away make a fuss about GERS figures.
It's a bit like looking at your personal income and wondering how you are going to manage, because you haven't taken into consideration your partner's money.
As for the SNP's fortunes, of course they will fall from grace at some point. But the polls don't look as if that moment is now.
brownlie
Deletewhere are u hiding u cowardly cur
tris
perhaps we should discuss Alex Salmond ( who was he u ask )
and RSB Fred goodwin who he with the full backing of Nicola
sturgeon gave 100% support....
Still in Alex own words
I think there are very few people who can justifiably say that they anticipated the full extent of the financial collapse - the financial crisis.
"I mean I know some people claim they did but I think if you examine the record you'll find there's very few people on the planet - and I am certainly not one of them - who anticipated it.
brownlie
where are u u cowardly cur
Actually, I anticipated it in a way. Or at least a part of it; not the complex stuff with all the bundles of debts that were being sold all around the world
DeleteI remember my brother and I discussing house priices, and deciding that if they continued at the rate they were going at, there would come a day when the only person who could afford a house would be prince Charles, and he didn't need one because he lived in a council house.
We may not have anticipated it all, but we certainly know that Brown's end to boom and bust, was really just going to end up as an end to boom.
I think Vince Cable spoke out about it.
Mr Brownlie to you... and he's on his wee island. I should imagine in the pub at this time of night.
"where are u u cowardly cur"
DeleteI refuse to believe Niko is a real person. Someone has been playing an elaborate trick on the denizens of Munguins Republic. Expecting a much drawn out 'April fools' this year.
Hmmm, I think he is real. No one would make up a character like him.
Deletetris and the other snp cultists
ReplyDeleteApropos - GERS
There is nothing you would not twist lie
distort and deny in your misguided cause
of foolish Independence.
I could say the same about you.
DeleteApropos of nothing Niko, which frankly describes Gers relevance to a future independent Scotland's finances.
DeleteHere is a wee thought for you.
Deficits create assets, surpluses destroy them.
Golfy: Niko has been brainwashed by Kez. I bet you'll find that, like James Kelly, he won't sit down, no matter how important the person who tells him to. There's no point in arguing.
DeleteAt times I feel the desire to take on thon troll of yours, but I resist. A troll is a troll. Best ignored....
ReplyDeleteHave you noticed that SNP have pretty much all the best politicians in Scotland on board? They are like a Belgium team playing against Andorra.
S.A.
Oh yes, I've noticed that.
DeleteI used to think they were better because whilst the unionists sent their best people to London, we kept ours here, but then when you looked at Stewart and Angus, Pete and Angus, et al, you realised that we sent good people to London too... just not enough of them.
Now we do. And there are some real stars there. Absolutely great.
Don't worry about Niko. By and large he's harmless. But his dog, Taz, is a corker!
I am glad you posted this Tris, as I am mostly using my Kindle to read stuff and have all sorts of difficulties replying, my usual password problems.
ReplyDeleteI had written to Bruce to sympathise but I thought he was wrong originally in joining the Lib Dems, they are not the old Liberal Party, they joined up with the band of opportuniest from the Labour Party who were too right wing, back in the eighties to stay. Well we know now they must have been to the right of A Hitler to have had to leave that bunch,
Bruce is a decent man and like all decent people it is hard to swallow watching the indecent at work. We have to remember that nearly all, oh what the heck, all of those in Unionist Parties are looking after themselves. Peerage anyone, sell yourself to the highest bidder and you get £300 a day for doing little. Then of course that is never enough, we have the likes of David Steel looking to make some more money but trying to get us to have a second chamber, preferably a house of lardy's so he an collect a bit more money.
As for sending their best people to Westminster, please let me simply say a few names to you, Jimmy Hood, Margaret Curran, Willie Rennie et al. None of them are the brightest tools in the shed and how they vanish never to be heard of while sitting there. One woman never said a word in her entire time there, cannot for a moment remember her name, someone, perhaps you mentioned her. Helena
I guess, Helena, that people do what they think best at the time. Bruce's principles (like many others in the party, or who have left the party), are essentially Liberal, and Democratic. Of course the LibDems aren't desperately either.
DeleteSo many of them are chancers!
There was some "Lady" from the Labour Party that was shoved upstairs to make way for a marginally more able person. And since she was in the Lords, (several years) she had only made her maiden speech, then nothing. But by heavens did she collect the expenses.
Munguin wrote an article on her at one time, but I'm damned if I can remember her name. John knows her...
Damn. It may come back to me.