This blog supports Scottish Independence. Comments on it, and contents of linked blogs, do not necessarily reflect Munguin's opinions.
I saw the clip of the guy having a go at Milliband on his way in to his ever so secret meeting. I have to admit I almost threw up, just seeing Milliband and that gawd awful permanent sleezy grin just makes me want to throw stuff at the T.V.
In theory, this guy should have been being cheered in Motherwell. He's the leader of the workers' party in a poor part of his traditional territory. There should have been massive crowds, all cheering him hoping he will be their next prime minister.
This called Democracy. In my very younger days heckling was as a part of the public meetings that were held all the time. The TV age killed of the very fine and and at times, very witty heckling to be heard.
The other Labour party a week past Thursday -https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8EwNz7r1pU
Difference is that that IS the working man's party.No flash suits and millionaire war criminals there.!
I notice that the polis were quite cool about letting the fulminator approach Milliband; I wonder if they were from the secret cell of the SNP.
I wondered about that. Maybe they didn't realise how "important" the band man in. Maybe they'd never heard of him.But they'd no need to fear. No violence, just good old fashioned heckling. If he can't handle that, then he should go get himself another job.The thing is, if that had been a proper politician, and such small number of protesters, he'd have gone across, engaged them and tried to find out what they were saying and deal with it.But he just ignored them. That's gonna change their minds, NOT
As regards the young man castigating Thazzaband and mentioning the working class, how very vulgar. Doesn't he realise that in New Labour, we are intensely relaxed about people becoming filthy rich? We are the comfortable home of Tony Blair, Peter Mandelson, Yvette Cooper-Balls, Baroness Helen Lidl and many other splendid people. We've grown up since our misty-eyed romantic founders donned their flat caps and rather unstylish clothes.
Some people are still under the illusion that Labour is the party of the working man.I dunno how they manage to filter out the "filthy rich", the "illegal wars", the murdering of fellow citizens by removal of their benefits without any real attempt to find suitable jobs for them...Clearly this man had temporarily forgotten or, has never known, that Labour is now the party of the rich, titled and privileged.All this working class stuff makes a good story though...I've just thought. maybe it was all Blair's plans to find work for the lower orders. Get yourself and all your friends filthy rich...employ servants, gardeners, maids, cooks...eat at restaurants... start wars... and soak up the working classes as servants or soldiers.There...Labour philosophy solved.
The nasty party is now obviously the snp tell me didyou/they get orders directly/indirectly....nudge nudge winkwink.To attack verbally and abuse the English jew boy millibandafter all dont want anyone to think the Labour party has anysupport in Scotland eh ??do you actually imagine any Scottish Labour supporter/voterwill now say..well them nats are fine upstanding Scots i mean do you.you should all condemn the malign abuse of Ed but you wont.better together support goes up one notch .
Malign abuse? Niko, if a politician can't take a little heckling (a good Dundee word, by the way!) and turn it round on the heckler, they're in the wrong job. I'll see your one notch and raise it ten votes for independence!Eck
I did not hear one word about Mr Miliband's religion in that little excerpt Niko. Funnily enough we are the one Nation in the Christian World who has never and I repeat never persecuted the Jews, Niko.If Mr Miliband was a natural politician, and remember he is supposedly on home turf in Motherwell, he should have turned back and talked to the man.
Pretty much answered you, Niko.You mentioned he was Jewish; not the lads who were protesting against his policies.And as Eck says, if someone heckles you, you go across to them and engage. that's what your job is. You are paid by these people out of their taxes to lead the Labour party which is the official opposition in Scotland and the UK.So you are paid as a cabinet minister to lead the official opposition, and when someone asks you a question about why the party of the working man isn't actually interested in the working man, you walk past them.Seriously ill advised.Just like Iain Gray when confronted by a pile of pensioners ...ran away and hid, because these pensioners looked dangerous.or Ms Lamont at the Labour party meeting who refused to even look at the person who was heckling her, never mind answer his legitimate questions about her claim to socialism.If you have a criticism of someone harping on about religion, you need to look to Cameron, Duncan Smith and some other no-mark Dominic Grieve who insist that this is a Christian country... presumably meaning that it couldn't be led by someone of a different religion... Surprised at you Niko.
Niko, No one mentioned religion or ethnicity, you seem to be of the view; If I sling enough shite some is bound to stick. I suggest you expand your horizons, read and learn of why this debate is being held and take time to truly reflect on why, and I say this for your own benefit, you are so sad that you have to snipe at perfectly reasoned fellow human beings.
trisSome people are still under the illusion that snp is the party of the working manAnd now tris will reveal the elected snp politician WHO has not increased there wealth...Obviously you cant include Alexwho by common consent is vastly more richer now then beforehe tricked his way into being the snps first minister.Any comments ?????
Oh Niko (thanks for stealing my name), most politicians end up better off after they have been at Westminster. being paid 3 times the average wage tends to make you better off.I'm wondering if you can tell me from where this common consent of yours gets it facts.Do we know Eck is richer? Have we seen his bank balance?Do we know if he is richer than, say Tony Blair, or Gordon Brown? Or maybe Lord Robertson, Baron of Port Ellen where they speak Gaelic?
Any comments niko?
I think they are all right about it. Blair, Thatcher and the other one all didn't appear in the Commons and went off to make money writing books and giving speeches.At least Blair resigned or took the whatever it is they take and stood aside to let his constituents have an MP. Thatcher Major and Brown have clung to the salary whilst doing pretty much nothing for it.It's interesting that he demanded the BBC take that video off their website, and utterly ridiculous that they did. It was a fair assessment, there was one for and one against and one pretty neutral. Seriously they should have told him to ... get lost...
I would be happy to hear if he is and that someone can prove the First Minister has made money from his sojourn in the Westminster Parliament. I believe he was castigated for charging for meals when Mr Darling was making money out of Flipping houses, hence his nickname, Flipper.I would happily shake the hand of the man who heckled Miliband who was too frightened to have an open meeting in a Labour Heartland, says much about the commitment to the people they say they support.
Yes. I wonder why Miliband came, had a private meeting at a place previously unannounced, didn't speak to the public and didn't do any interviews, even with a tame press?Like the Tories when they had their cabinet meeting in Inverness. in secret without speaking to any of the common people.Unlike the Scottish cabinet which arrived on a bus and held a public meeting...Flipper... makes me think of a performing seal...
The reason for the lack of protesters is because it was all hush hush, I only found out by sheer chance the most of the local people only found out it was happening was from the reporters. I attended the meeting which was by invitation only, it was supposed to be a Q & A session but was brazen propaganda with most of the questions bounced back to Joanne Lamont and Margaret Curran, I don't think Ed had any idea what people were saying, How the hell would he understand the accent of people from Motherwell, Oh and there were only four people from the local community there, token schemies.
Hi Gerladine... Thanks for that info..A public meeting arranged privately...?Why are they so frightened to meet the people or the press?
Just a wee aside the guy who was heckling him was a former labour supporter, tell it all. I was one of the token schemies.
I suspected he was Labour, Geraldine... congratulations on your supporting role.
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/help-scotland-vote-yes#homeSomeone in need of money....
Sent them some.
Bravo Helena. Munguin too.
Just had a look... they are up at £1,300+...Great news. £800 in a day!
That is really good, looked such a nice shop, we may get over there sometime over the summer, used to go to Stirling a lot but somehow with my wee ginger dug, no not the Galician one, mair the Chinese one we never manage to get over.
Yeah. I might have a run over there one day... Would be a good idea to have some of the merchandise.
If only Labour had won election in 1997.
Aye life would have been so much better...
Indeed, we would be so much better off. Aye right, I remember sitting in the office with our bosses waiting to find out if they were going to remove Thatcher's 5%profit off local government departments like mine, Highways, you know they didn't.
So many promises... and to be fair they did do some of them.... but they didn't do much.
Nice to see that we are all heeding Milliband's latest Project Fear speak Tris. Oh wait a minute on second thoughts maybe we're not! LOLhttp://tinyurl.com/no4k6unNow if only some *ahem* intelligent journalistic type person would be kind enough to ask him, Milliband that is, why he is spouting such utter pish when clearly the whole of Europe proves that he is LYING!
He's been really lucky to get away with doing no interviews and answering no questions on the pile of crap he's been talking
Well he does an utterly world class *ahem* teacher after all. The one, the only, Gordon "I'm an EX politician" Brown!
True. I wonder why they refuse to give interviews.Remember that Osborne refused to give interviews when he came up to tell us that it was HIS pound. It belonged to them and we couldn't use it. Either they think they are too important to speak to ordinary people like journos... or they are scared stiff that they might be actually pressed for a reason to stay with the Uk that doesn't start with CLO and end UT.
So Ed (My hero was Margaret Thatcher) Miliband has aid he'll bring social justice to Scotland, there was a time when the words social justice and Labour would've went hand in hand, but those days are long gone now.New Labour are a completely different beast, Maxton, Hardy, McLean and even Mrs Barbour, would take new Labour, for the Tory party, and indeed, they're just as ruthless now as the Tories, with Miliband publically stating,that he'll continue if not increase the austerity cuts, that are crippling the UK today. why would anyone vote no and face years of austerity and hardship is beyond me.Labour politicians won't face such hardships though, only the public, so they'll say anything to keep the union, and I mean anything.
It's a joke. The people who let the City run riot; the people who invaded Iraq and killed and maimed hundreds of thousands of totally innocent people (making the UK a number one target for terrorism); the people who double the bottom rate of income tax adn left it to the Liberal Democrats to put up the bottom tax threshold to 2/3 of the poverty line; the people who introduced Atos to sick people and signed their death warrants; the party who voted for a cap on in-work benefits... but not a limit on how much rent a slum landlord can charge for a pig sty...Yes... a fine party of the working man. Bravo New Labour.
The word from deep within the Labour party is the new adviser is recommending, with the big nobs' blessing, that Ed will 'resign' as the leader and his brother will be the leader prior to the General election. You heard it here first and will get good long odds from the bookies on that.John the Mole!
Hello John the Mole.OKKKKKKK. Sounds plausible, like old Boris leading the Toerags...But how is Mr Miliband the elder going to get into parliament? Who will stand down from a safe seat for (for a seat in the Lords) to give him his get back...It will have to be a very safe seat, because he will have ot be parachuted in, and people might not forget that when he didn't get what he wanted the last time he resigned and took up a better paying job in New York.The worrying thing is that I'd say he is more right wing than David Cameron... areal Blair's babe... well... not much of a babe I'd admit, but a real Blairite.
But didn't but he brother resign as an MP and go to build hospitals in the colonies or something? He'd need to stand and get elected in a by-election first.
Oh erm... LOL yeah... sorry. I didn't see your comment until I'd written mine.
Tris and moraycoast,Yes, he would need to do that but, sadly, there are still constituency where Labour's votes are counted by the barrow-load. I'm told that Niko has already invested four groats with the bookies to subsidise his Cyprus two-up and two-down.
Crikey... he must have been saving these groats since he was a young lad...
To the nat glee club (and ringmaster tris )you lot have completely lost the plot the snp/nat garbagehas rotted your brains and distorted your minds.“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.” - Voltaireand you lot are getting there bit by nasty bit........one can only hopethe Scots open there eyes wide before it is too late!!!
Niko, what's wrong with your Pet?Who stole your scone?Tell Uncle Tris and he go sort them for you.... and stop being such an old grumpy guts.
Och, Niko, I take it you were not born when Cyprus gained it's independence. They did not use the ballot box there as I remember it, Uncle was in the RAF there. Cheers.
You'd think the SNP was the IRA they way Niko carried on...All we are asking is that the people of Scotland get a fair deal.It's best that both sides tell the truth of that their intentions are one way and another. People will be angry if they have been openly lied to.
Indeed Tris, some people have strange memories and one such is Niko. I take a very dim view of the utterances of this gentleman given I know the politics of that period very well. Uncle was stationed there during the troubles, after them as well and my Cousin did have dual citizenship as well for a bit, having been born in Nicosia.
Niko... Pay attention Pet!
Niko,Wil you be voting to keep my nobble Lards Martin, Reid, Watson, McConnell, Robertson in their well-deserved luxury. Will you be willing to pay for WMDs, up-grading the M25, London sewers, HS2, London cross-rail, Labour MP tossers like Murphy, Alexander, Curran and their bed-knobs and broomsticks, Tory mansions and duck-ponds etc etc for litle or no return? Good luck with that. Actually the association of duck-ponds and Curran is quite appealing!
I'd feel a bit sorry for the poor ducks having to listen to her whining...
I always think it's strange, to be fair I find most things strange, that apart from Tory ministers who come up, make a speech with no questions asked, that there does not seem to be a Tory spokes-person in the Better together campaign and that the ones chosen to speak on their behalf, such as Darling, Robertson, Reid and Brown - when he's at home - are totally inept with attendant baggage. Then on behalf of the Liberal we get Moore, Carmichael and the odd dribble from Willie Rennie. We never seem to hear much from such as Davidson, Auntie Bella, Murdo Fraser etc etc. Could it be that the Tories are not totally against Scottish independence?
I have to admit that I have felt that for a long time John. In my skewered way of looking at things the Tories, the BLUE ones, have a lot more to gain from Scottish independence than either the RED or YELLOW Tories do.Yes they'll get the stick for letting Scotland go its own way but that's probably about it.
Mrs Goldie was supposed to be the Tory voice of BT. Given that she's probably the only Tory in Scotland that is reasonably widely liked, that seemed a sensible choice. As was Charlie Kennedy for the Liberals. Why anyone thought that the rather boring Darling, who looks and sounds like an Edinburgh Tory was a good choice, heaven knows.Unfortunately neither Annabel nor Charlie seem to have done anything at all.I wondered too if they are completely committed to it.The Liberals too. I mean Kennedy has complained at how lacklustre the no campaign is, and the only Liberals who seem to support it are Clegg, Carmichael and Moore.Wee Willie does exactly what Clegg does, so his contribution seems rather superfluous.
I tayjer think that they now understand Cameron's tactics, which are to let Darling totally destroy Labour in Scotland and they will reap the benefit, Yes or No vote.
They might think they will reap the benefit...Wee Willie for president!
My glasses weren't working this morning; tayjer?
At least Ed is putting himself out there as a UK party leader, and engaging in some old fashioned political campaigning. It is much more than I can say for the likes of call-me-Dave, or Nick 'I sold out' Clegg. And it is equally more refreshing than Alex 'I admire Putin' Salmond (or is that now, Alex 'Shut the fishing waters' Salmond?)
Oh Dean, you are a tease!He said that admired certain aspects of Putin and what he had done. My thoughts are that we created Putin, although not in an Orc sort of way. Compare and contrast the Versailles Treaty after WW1 and the creation of Hitler, whose raison d'etre was based on the German's perception of being raped and pillaged by that Treaty. The fall of the Soviet Union, the subsequent economic annihilation and the dismemberment of their Soviet Empire fed Putin or someone like him. If we had embraced them into NATO, reasonably quickly and helped then restructure their economy to alleviate the extent of the misery visited on the ordinary Russians, the ones who voted Putin into power, we might not have had this Mexican standoff. The Russians are cheering Putin on because they believe he is restoring their international self esteem, which was part of their whole being in the ex USSR.As for him shuting the Scottish waters, oh really.Have a look at the map of North Sea economic zones and see where Scotland's EZ comes to meet Germany's, Denmark's, Netherland's and Norway's own EZoneshttps://www.google.co.uk/search?q=exclusive+economic+zones+north+sea&biw=1280&bih=602&tbm=isch&imgil=-KFea2NIKgLugM%253A%253Bhttps%253A%252F%252Fencrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com%252Fimages%253Fq%253Dtbn%253AANd9GcS3Sc5BES9OBUPWHOf_SjrxjtytP1uku3msQQiXvm2LCxEv01Ic%253B1034%253B1200%253BxKT-bkHf3_al4M%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fcommons.wikimedia.org%25252Fwiki%25252FFile%25253ANorth_sea_eez.PNG&source=iu&usg=__GR1vUHRTK-hI2BSqGf5OHQQWXQM%3D&sa=X&ei=md9fU-GkLcPKOdbdgMAF&ved=0CDAQ9QEwAQ#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=WZdKMvupaCaBKM%253A%3BRBt4AWiuBvJTRM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252F4.bp.blogspot.com%252F-2zu0IrbBmoc%252FUaI_ARlu6gI%252FAAAAAAAAAhs%252FSotmHvmE6z8%252Fs1600%252FBritish_isles_eezs.png%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Famphibiousnecessity.blogspot.com%252F2013%252F05%252Fjune-2013-quick-notes-britains-energy.html%3B1141%3B845He said, how would they get to Norway's EZ, if even Norway let's them in as they would not be permitted to fish or transit the Scottish EZ. How else could Scotland be certain that they were not fishing illegally?
I'm amazed that even the Express and the Mail (by anyone's standards low grade unionist papers of dubious repute... and no friend to Labour) made this a headline story.I saw the interview. Salmond didn't say he admired Putin. He said that Putin had given a bit of Russia back a bit of pride. Panda puts it better than I do, so. I'll leave it at that.But Salmond specifically said that he disapproved of Putin's attitude to human rights.If I'm not mistaken the speech was made prior to the current Ukraine debacle.On the other hand Mr Blair for Labour said that we should be friends with Mr Putin and work with him to fight Muslim extremists, like, for example the democratically elected government (or ex-government) of Egypt, but NOT like the dictators of Bahrain or Saudi Arabia, who were put there by.... themselves, but who, by happy coincidence buy shed loads of arms from Brit pedlars of death...The fishing thing, I haven't much idea about but clearly our Panda has... and has explained (hat tip to Panda).
I assume that you are not a fan of our First Minister but before calling him names actually read his speech, you may be surprised. He said that if Scotland were not in the EU then there would be no access to Scotland's fishing grounds. That is not a threat, that is reality. I would expect that any of the leaders in the Scottish Parliament faced with the YES vote to do the same.
Helena,On the issue of Alex Salmond, you'd be correct in assuming I don't particularly like his government. I am labour party member (that said, I'll be voting yes, and am active with labourforindy - note).However what I was trying to get at was Alex poor choice of tone, and his outburst threatening to stop 12EU nations using Scottish OR NORWEGIAN waters if we don't get speedy entry (or in at all).See Guardian here: " after he claimed that 12 European nations could be barred from Scottish and Norwegian waters if an independent Scotland was refused EU membership."-http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/apr/28/alex-salmond-fisheries-eu-scotlandThis is a massive concern to me, because I'm passionately and resolutely pro-EU. I admire its acquis, its social agenda, its determination to enhance working protections and promote human, civil and LGBT rights across the continent and globe. So if Alex comments indicate he's rolling back from claims that we'd get in/stay in EU this presents a massive problem for me. I won't vote yes if Alex and the SNP are increasingly resorting to threats to our EU comrades to keep our EU citizenship hopes alive post-yes.I did read his speech, and I am alarmed about all that. I don't trust Alex Salmond; and in doing so doesn't make me unreasonable. Further, on his praise for Putin, clearly Alex isn't gay. I am, and I can tell you, Alex shows surprising naivety in thinking Putin revanchist nationalism is anything other than violent, cruel, ethnic nationalism. Salmond assumes all other nationalists around the world as civic like him; well they aren't. No one who is gay, or a minority could ever praise Putin and his revanchist nationalism.
Dean, have you read or listened to what AS actually said, not what the Guardian said he said, or thought he said or thought he would have or should have said.
He said, how would they get to Norway's EZ, if even Norway let's them in as they would not be permitted to fish or transit the Scottish EZ. How else could Scotland be certain that they were not fishing illegally?http://tinyurl.com/mxhapf9
Dean they would be barred by Maritime Law without permission of the State that owned jurisdiction nothing else or are you happy for any Tom, Dick or Harry coming into your property and helping themselves to your belongings willy nilly?
Thanks for the explanations …now I understand that a bit better. I’m out of the loop at the moment being so busy that I don’t have the time to read up on what’s happening.Dean: If Scotland were barred from the EU on day one of independence, there would be many things that would, by international or EU law, have to change. Scottish people living in the EU would become aliens (and for the purposes of residence and would have to apply for permits to live there). EU citizens living, working, studying in Scotland would also become aliens. This is not Scots law, or Alex Salmond law, it is EU law. If you are a member you have responsibilities, and you have rights. If you are not, you have neither. EU students would suddenly be liable for university fees such as are applied to people now from out with the EU.All free trade agreements would have, by law, to stop, as would payments to farmers (which are small in Scotland because the UK government keeps most of them) and fishermen (which are also small because, as I understand it, Mrs Thatcher gave the rights away so she could get a headline grabbing rebate, and Tony Blair went along with that when renewal came up). But however little they are, they would stop. Anything that is being funded by EU money would stop.Clearly our fishermen would no longer be entitled by law to fish in EU waters, and EU fishermen would not be entitled to fish in Scottish waters. It’s not a threat…it’s pointing out what the law is.Yes Madrid, you might win some friends with your right wing mates in London, but all your students will have to find massive fees for their courses… and your workers will become aliens and your fishermen will not be able to fish our waters BECAUSE WE WON’T BE IN THE EU and you have the right to fish only in EU waters… just like you can’t fish in the amazingly productive waters around Greenland, because they are not in the EU… QEDIf we said… “oh well, you’re probably going to let us in in the future, so we will waive the fees for students and the residence permits for EU citizens and let you go on fishing in our waters, although we don’t get any payments form you” we would open our waters and our universities to anyone. You can’t favour Poland and Spain without giving equal rights to Russia and Botswana!Alex is pro EU, but he’s simply pointing out what kind of problems there would be for people who might think that the can curry favour with London by making life hard for Scotland. He is in fact trying to ensure that Scotland will be in the EU from day one. Craig Murray has indicated that in his experience there isn’t one diplomat who doubts that Scotland will be accepted. But London has said that they will make it difficult (until we are actually independent we will have no voice in Brussels, expect theirs, and Hague has said that they will not carry out negotiations on our behalf). Alex is pointing out the crass stupidity of that attitude. (The words toys and pram come to mind.)