Like we all knew it should be. But then that doesn't make nearly as good a story.
Sweden has no negotiated opt out (like Britain does), but has not joined the Euro.
Whilst I would never go so far as to expect the Buggered Together campaign to tell the truth, it might be a good idea if they could get their lies to co-ordinate.
No wonder Britain is such a basket case with jerks like this running it.
Try to get it together guys...
Nah, on reflection, as Sid James would say, "Carry On Regardless".
I hate to say it but if you read the Lisbon Treaty then Mr Darling is correct. We would have to join the euro. We could fudge it for a few years I suppose but we would have to commit to join it and show willingness to get our economy on track to join.
ReplyDeleteThe fact that the eurozone is a total basket case that will collapse soon is neither here nor there.
I'm shocked that you believe anything cast iron says tris. Tsk tsk you're standards are slipping ;)
With no coherent arguments, how can the Belters Together ever get in tune? Negativity, spin and inexactitude leads only to confusion.
ReplyDeleteA continue le motif Francais (OK, Belgique), I feel that the Unionists position is summed up by the words of this song -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=za_6A0XnMyw
"you're standards are slipping"....so are mine :)
ReplyDeleteThe rules for joining the euro
ReplyDelete1) Countries must have a budget deficit of less than 3% GDP;
2) Countries must have government debt of less than 60% their GDP, or be on a declining trend;
3) Countries must have inflation within 1.5% the average figure for the three countries with the lowest inflation in the EU;
4) Domestic bond spreads must not be more than 2% over German bunds;
5) Countries must be a member of the ERM2 system, without causing severe tensions, for at least two years prior to Euro membership.
tris
ReplyDeleteNice try but no cigar the snp for that is who you are trying to protect.
Have an unmitigated disaster of an eu mess on their hands all self made.
I always said A;ex was a liar and now so does most everybody else.
Shame is he has dragged Nicola down with him coward as well as a liar
@Nicola
ReplyDeleteGive us just one instance, with proof, of Alex lying.
@ Monty & CH
It's that 5th para which is the killer! Whilst a commitment to joining the euro is a prerequisite membership of the ERM2 is VOLUNTARY,
Boorach/ ch...if you believe Greece et al met the criteria to join the euro then you will believe that windmills will keep the lights on....oh hang on you probably do ;)
ReplyDeleteOnce you're in the euro you're trapped in their fiscal noose so they will twist any rule to get you in there.
I think the point isn't whether or not the Euro is technically compulsory though easy to avoid but that Bitter Thegether make it up as they go along. Who can forget Alastair Darling's speech where independence was both forever and something that could end in a life time. Then there's the triple A status. Scotland wouldn't have it - very bad. But now that the UK might lose it, it's not that important really. Like the man says, can you not try to co-ordinate your lies and scare stories.
ReplyDeleteMonty Goldman-Sachs fiddled the books for Greece to give a false impression of propriety. Funny how the banks keep popping up when criminality is going on around the world.
ReplyDeleteMonty: That must have hurt my friend. I note you said "Darling is right", and not "Alistair Darling is right"... :)
ReplyDeleteThat might have been too much for your computer to cope with !
Well... you leave me in a quandary. On the one hand that financial genius, Alistair Darling who was at Gordon Brown's back when he saved the world... or there is David "Eton Boy" Cameron, the prime minister best known for knowing when to wear white tie, and when to wear black.
Give up.
I always wanted the Scottish pound, but someone explained to me that if Scotland broke away from sterling, taking the oil, the English pound would nose dive.
AAA would be a thing of the past. Junk would be the new black, as they say, for Mr Osborne.
J'aime tellement Brel, Barney.
ReplyDeleteI think it's probably quite difficult to get your orchestra in tune if one of the players is too thick to understand the rules.
:)
Thanks CH...
ReplyDeleteI don't know which of these would apply in any case, given that we will be left with a stunning debt by the UK. After all never mind the basked case that are Greece or Spain, British debt is off the scale by comparison.
hi tris .I said 'Mr Darling is correct' ;)
ReplyDeleteAlthough it hurt to say it.
cynical..GS are now running the show at the BofE ;)
Greece colluded with GS to get into the eurozone. Lots of monies salted away overseas. Lagarde has 'the list' of 20,000 throughout the EU who have secret bank accounts abroad but refuses to reveal the list. One Greek journalist 'published and be damned' and was damned. Tried..guilty...freed...tried again...
The whole system will crash while we beg to be let in after independence. Madness.
Nicola. Would you be a relative of Niko's by any chance?
ReplyDeleteI only ask because your post is so much like his ones, that, why, it could almost have been written by him...
Like or loathe him, most people acknowledge that Mr Salmond is a politician of ability...
And because you detest him, you shouldn't underestimate him. That is a HUGE mistake to make.
Given his abilities, do you seriously think he would have been stupid enough to lie about either the EU or the Bank of England, knowing that there wasn't even the slightest chance that it wouldn't come back to bite him on the bum.
It wasn't something that would not come up in discussions; it wasn't something that would not have to be thrashed out. It was bound to come out.
He knew and knows that the British state will do everything in its power to keep Scotland's oil, wind, wave, potential, and its other lucrative industries.
He also knew and knows that when it comes to being perfidious, the Brits have no equals. They will use fair means and foul to thwart him.
Do you seriously think, Miss Nicola, that Salmond and his advisers are stupid enough to put two open goals in their way?
Tell your grandad we were asking for him, and when he's feeling better we'd love to see him back...
Aye panda paws, Busted Togetehr like their riddles don't they.
ReplyDeleteStill when you've nothing very positive to say, it's awful easy to simply pick the most negative thing you can think of at the time.
It's only later that you realise that yesterday you thought the opposite of what you just said, was the most negative.
You have to feel sorry for them. They aren't evenly matched.
Of course, Monty, Greece WANTED to be in the €, and told lies to get in... which the Central Bank accepted despite them being obvious lies.
ReplyDeleteOur criteria for joining will take forever to meet, maybe even longer if we try hard enough...
CH. Bless them, Goldmans should be the ones, getting their violins in tune. They are, after all fiddlers extraordinaire.
ReplyDeleteBut yes, it's true what you say. These banks are at the back of everything that is crooked.
Isn't B£air on their board. He should fit in nicely there.
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ReplyDeleteDon't know enough about the EU situation to comment but my instincts, being from a family of fishermen almost ruined by EU rules, is to not join the EU and certainly not under restrictive practices.
ReplyDeleteI've noticed that Lamont is breaking away from the "Blether together" campaign and forming a "Scottish" Labour to tackle the independence campaign.
I regard this as very good news but I can imagine Niko hiding behind the sofa.
Funny how Darling is adamant Scotland MUST join the Euro. Perhaps someone, anyone, would like to direct Darling to the points that Bulgaria has told the Euro to get stuffed AND Sweden AFTER nearly TWENTY years in the EU is still NOT in the Euro. DOH!
ReplyDeleteNow if Bulgaria has NO intention of joining the Euro and Sweden has NEVER joined the Euro what ever makes Darling think for one second that Scotland would be FORCED to join the Euro.
I would be very interested to hear from anyone which EU member was FORCED to join the Euro.
As others have pointed out the Greeks joining the Euro was because THEY wanted to and gained entry through the collusion of underhand banking measures courtesy of Goldman Sachs. I guess there is one word that springs to mind when talking about GS and the Greek entry to the Euro.... FRAUD!
Nicola where is your evidence that AS is a liar and a coward? You seem content to put up such accusations perhaps you'd be so kind to also put up your evidence to these accusations.
If AS is as bad as you infer Nicola then can you explain why AS and the SNP are riding so HIGH in the polls, surely if they were as bad as you infer they would NOT be riding so high!
tris
ReplyDeletethat was me in a hurry some how pasted the wrong name.
although me comment was spot on.
i see over at the tory diary vilification of and whipping up hate of the unemployed has taken center stage.
'In targeted online media, banner ads contrasting "hardworking families" and "people who don't work", illustrated by a man sitting at home on his sofa,'
John: I'd be happy with being in the same clubs as Norway. They seem to have ok.
ReplyDeleteYes, I'd like to know that too, Arbroath. At the moment, you cannot really see anyone being forced into it, with it being in the mess that it is in.
ReplyDeleteCountries would be mad to join.
I'd be happy to be in the EEA.
It seems to have most of the advantages without the costs. I accept that you have to stick by EU rules and you don't have a seat at the top table, but we've never had one, so we wouldn't miss it. At least we wouldn't have the UK government messing things up for us.
Ah yes, Monty. I missed the Mr. I thought maybe you'd said Darling is correct... and that could be anyone, not necessarily the Alistair one.
ReplyDeleteAh I see Niko. And there was me thinking we had your niece among us.
ReplyDeleteWell never mind. You didn't say whether you thought Alex was daft enough to tell lies that were certain to be found out.
As for the Tories. They make me sick. There are so many people out there that would kill ofr a job, but apart from: Cleaner 6 hours a week; Dental surgeon, must have experience; phlebotomy assistant, one afternoon a fortnight, and other such wonders, there's pretty well not a lot happening.
I've never looked at Tory Diary... I must go over and poke around.
OK folks who wants to guess what that nice Mr Darling's response is to THIS?
ReplyDeletehttp://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-20742997
ReplyDeleteInteresting.
I love the "The people of Iceland will remember Gordon Brown (for what he did to them) long after the people of Britain will have forgotten him." President Grimmson Terrorists like North Korea? Brown was as mad a hatter.
It's never been usual for people to have two or three jobs in Iceland because of the small population. You can't just do one job, by and large. Almost every teacher is a tour guide in the summer, and at one point the tv station had to close down for a month in August so that people could have a holiday!
And things have always been relatively expensive there. I've never understood how the economy worked. The population is less than that of greater Edinburgh, but somehow everyone is very well off.
I thought that the comment about the right winger in the Thatcher mould was interesting, considering what the Tories are doing to health and education in England:
YOU HAVE TO HAVE A FULLY EDUCATED AND HEALTHY WORKFORCE.
Oh for governments like that. Wait, we could have one...
Time to man/women the barricades as the little uns come out to play.
ReplyDeleteOops looks like another MASSIVE toys out of the pram moment is looming on the horizon.
ReplyDeleteWhen will these idiots learn, unless you have something POSITIVE to say about Scottish Independence or something POSITIVE to say about being Better Together SHUT THE FFFF UP! JEEZ!
They have NO argument FOR the union. They have NO argument FOR anything.
They have NO argument FULL STOP!
'In targeted online media, banner ads contrasting "hardworking families" and "people who don't work", illustrated by a man sitting at home on his sofa,'
ReplyDeletehttp://4.bp.blogspot.com/-2amNhHTUs-I/UM4SJEZTrRI/AAAAAAAACBw/zCrM7aYegoc/s320/picture.aspx.jpg
"....But one opt-out must be discussed here briefly and that is the euro opt-out. The euro is a genuine example of scaremongering within this debate. The notion that Scotland could be forced or compelled to adopt the euro is simply untrue. Should Scotland fail to inherit the UK’s euro opt-out then, it is true, there would be a legal obligation for Scotland to adopt the euro when it met the necessary membership conditions.
ReplyDeleteBut one of those necessary membership conditions is stable membership of the ERM-II (exchange rate mechanism) for two years, and such membership is optional. If that sounds a little bizarre – having an optional measure as a precondition for a mandatory one – then you perhaps aren’t familiar enough with the EU! Sweden is the classic example: it has wilfully avoided joining ERM-II but the thought of Brussels forcing it to adopt the currency is rightly seen as nonsense. It would be the same for Scotland. Furthermore it has to be recognised that Scotland is likely to use the pound following independence and there is no mechanism in the EU treaties at present to deal with a country lacking its own currency transitioning to euro membership."
Taken from an article in teh Scotsman witten by Dr Daniel Kenealy, lecturer in politics & international relations at the University of Edinburgh.
http://www.scotsman.com/news/daniel-kenealy-all-to-play-for-in-spite-of-barroso-s-letter-1-2688463
It's worth a read, as of course is WOS on the advantages of the EFTA.
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ... CH.
ReplyDeleteErm, Better together is supposedly led by a Labour man, although I suppose even they might find him hard to recognise as Labour.
So Sarwar is taking on the role (not Mrs Lamont, I note, I wonder why not).
Oh well. Seems to me all the Tories have got to do is fund it.
And all the Liberals have to do is...erm... I'll get back to you on that.
I've had a look at that site and it's sickening Niko.
ReplyDeleteI also filled in their questionnaire about work and welfare. Not that they will like my answer.
tris
ReplyDeletemust say majority of posters on the torydiary are def not in favour of attacking the unemployed as lazy feckless scroungers.
So anus wants to sort out 'wealth redistribution, social justice, tackling poverty ' isn't that what labour did throughout the Blair/brown years with the able assistance of darling.
ReplyDeleteSomeone really should explain to them that that generally means top down and not the opposite.
No Niko, it's the party that feel like that, but on the other hand when you read some of the comments on the Telegraph site...sheeeeesh. Nut jobs.
ReplyDeleteIt's a bit mixed up actually Boorach. I just posed a comment on the next post (Snaps on Sunday),quoting what Lamont said, and what Sarwar said.
ReplyDeleteIt';s a wee bit confusing because he and darling seem to be doing the same thing.
I grant you that Darling is making a pig's ear of it, but, what are they playing at.
Surely in any case all of these things are what Labour was set up to do. That's a bit like the SNP having to explain that the stand for an independent Scotland.
Anas Sarwar is an Asian clone of Ed Miliband and just as redundant, he's a labour robot who answers questions by rote and with soundbites.
ReplyDeleteAlso, I take issue with people who make a point then back it up with; "... and so does everyone else." Who is 'everyone else' exactly and how have you come to that conclusion, have you actually pspoken to 'everyone else' or even 'most' of 'everyone else'?
I only ask because normally when 'everyone else' is deployed as supporting evidence, it really means only one, (ie. the person who's saying it) or its actually a load of unjustifiable shite you've just made up. You'd be as well post-scripting your crap with an '...and I'm telling my mummy if you don't believe me!'
This whole EU argument is risible, its not even important at this stage, Better Together are rolling in it because of all the hand wringing that's going on. But, as usual the hand wringing is being done in the unionist press and commentariat and mostly being ignored by the vast majority of people and, before anyone deploys my own argument above against me; my evidence is in the declinging readership numbers of the printed press, the fact that Better Together are having to bribe volunteers with travelling expenses and lunch and the notion that their outfit is funded by people and organisations out with Scotland not to mention, they have a washed up chancellor (and a shit one at that) for a leader and spokesperson who's very job and financial future hinges on the continuation of this ruinous union.
Which in and of itself is not a point in Better Together's favour.
Yeah Pa.
ReplyDeleteYou're right about that.
Added to that, you have people like Cameron who say: "I know I speak for the whole country when I say... blah, blah". I always think... No. You don't. You may in fact only be speaking for yourself.
As for the EU. That's not the really important argument. We may well be better outside the EU, but in the EEA. As long as we have access to the EU market.
Butter Together have really sunk low if they are making a fuss about something that doesn't actually matter to most people (I base that on the fact that no one ever mentions EU when you are campaigning).
And the funny thing is that the newspapers who are making most of the fact that Scotland might find itself a non member of the EU, are the ones that will campaign for a withdrawal if the London government holds a referendum. So it's good for the UK to come out of the EU but it would be a disaster if Scotland wasn't in.... WHAT?