This blog supports Scottish Independence. Comments on it, and contents of linked blogs, do not necessarily reflect Munguin's opinions.
Pete Wisharthot airn. boasting; lying; nonsense. That’s just a lot of hot air. Ignore it.See also: air, hothot airEmpty, exaggerated talk, as in That last speech of his was pure hot air. It is also put as full of hot air, as in Pay no attention to Pete-he's full of hot air. This metaphoric term transfers heated air to vaporous talk. [Late 1800s]See also: air, hot
Nice attempt at deflection, Niko, when he reveals the Labour and Tory politicians with a few honourable exceptions as the murder-condoning bastards that they really are. But not to worry, Chilcot said at the very beginning that his inquiry was not to apportion blame. That being the case why do they not release his findings/conclusions?
Do you have anything to say on this matter Niko, do you believe that Iraq was a danger to us, cause I didn't I still do not. In fact I consider we were actually a danger to the people of Iraq. Blair and his US master got what they wanted, they made the middle east a much less safe place and so it is. I doubt that Chilcot got his brief because he was going to make Blair a scapegoat, but obviously any findings will cause a stir one way or another, probably the another being the bad one.
We went to war on lies.It's not that we were't warned. Dr Blix warned us. President Chirac warned us. The United Nations warned us. We had no mandate for military action. Even Blair's own Attorney General warned him, until two days later he changed his mind by 100%. I wonder why.We couldn't wait for the weapons (because of the threat of the winter weather... which somehow in the years that followed didn't stop us fighting on), or maybe it was becasue Bush knew that they would find no weapons?We killed hundreds of thousands of people on lies.We maimed hundreds of thousands more on lies.We destroyed homes, businesses, infrastructure on lies.We maladministered the country we had taken by these lies and reduced it to chaos, from a relatively forward looking dictatorship to a country steeped in the past.We destroyed women's rights. Before our intervention women were working, owning businesses and being educated. After they were veiled and housebound.We were the midwives of ISIS or the Caliphate or whatever they are, which not only have laid waste to what is left of Iraq, but now look like they arte a threat to the rest of the middle East..And why did me manufacture these lies?Presumably because George W or one of his minions told us to.Possibly because he, or his evil, but much cleverer, deputy, wanted to get their hands or Iraqi oil.Possibly because aforementioned evil deputy had a company that would profit by billions from there being a large scale war. Possibly because the leader of Iraq had humiliated George's daddy.But we had no quarrel with the Iraqi people.We warned Saddam that we would attack Baghdad.Did we seriously think he would be sitting there is the palace waiting to be killed?So why did we bomb Baghdad killing and blowing legs and arms off all these people?To you it may be hot air, Niko, To some people it was death, or the rest of their lives with no legs or arms .You don;t have to be tribal about it. Kate Hoey was able to put her view agreeing with Pete.As for Chilcot, I rather suspicious that after all this time something should be available. After all Mr Smith was able to come up with a report in 3 months on the whole Scottish constitution.Why can't Mr Chilcot manage a report after 6 years?Why did Jim Murphy vote against an inquiry into the Iraq war?
http://marksimonfrankland.blogspot.co.uk/2015/02/forgotten-fallout-from-forgotten-wars.htmlOr by the link on the sidebar... Mark Frankland blog.
Grow up Niko.
JimminyNo shant !
Niko in another life form.
trisThe truth is whether the Iraq was right or wrong isn't the issuefor the nats its an outrage and it you didnt have that you would find another.Its all about how evil the Union (read English) and Westminster areand how peaceful and beneficent the world would be if Scotland wasan independent Nation.Not sure out af all the wars around the world and all the atrocitieswith them .Why the Iraq one is a stand out one for the natsapart from it was led by the Americans boo hiss ! and followedby the English Boo ! Hiss ! who dragged the rest of the UK nations into it Only the dead have seen the end of warand the Scottish Nationalist chip on the shoulderwhining.the lyrics of a song sayYou can get addicted to a certain kind of sadness The snp/nats are addicted to a certain kind of angst
Producing some of your own hot air, now, Niko.
I hear what you are saying Niko. But it's not just the SNP who feel like that about it. There are many in the Labour party who do....Kate Hoey and the bloke that CH linked to above, are but two examples. Claire Short, Robin Cooke....What is different about this war?I don't know. The first big war since the Falklands, (which I was against, because I believe it was a manufactured war, which Thatcher used to stir up patriotism and support for herself despite the dreadful things she had done to ordinary Scottish, Irish, English and Welsh people). They had known for years that Argentina had designs on the Malvinas and they did and said nothing ....giving the impression that they weren't that bothered. Tony Benn speaks of it in his diaries.This one had millions of protesters on the streets and of course, it took place in a time when respect for politicians was low; and when the ability to access information was high (maybe the two are associated).Maybe newspapers wouldn't have dared, and undoubtedly the BBC would not have considered reporting on the lies, the dossier that was a PhD thesis, or post doctoral thesis written by a guy whose family had allegedly fallen foul of Saddam, had it not been for the fact that the information was readily available on the net.Maybe it's because it was avoidable. Maybe because Hans Blix begged the leaders to wait 2 weeks, by which time he would have concluded his search. Maybe it's because the French president stated openly on French tv (I was there, I saw the presidential address) that France would not back the American/British proposal to go to war because he didn’t believe that there were WMDs in Iraq. Remember he would have had access to the same information as Bush and Blair. Maybe it's because they defied the UN. Maybe it's because it was a coalition of far right PMs... Italy, Spain, US, UK. Never to be trusted. Berlusconi, Bush, Jose Maria and our Tony… what a bunch.It's certainly true that it wasn't the first time that the British state (and other states) have gone to war over nothing, and lost millions of lives. The First World War that Cameron made so much of, was one such war. It's just that the sheeple had no way of finding out in these days that they had been sent to their death for the greater glory of stupid empires.But what do you think, taking away your hatred of the SNP? Are you happy with the war? Are you happy with the reports of Dr Kelly's suicide when he tried to tell the truth? Are you happy with Robin Cooke's death on the top of the mountain? Do you believe what Blair was saying? Do you think that he genuinely thought that Britain was but 45 minutes away from WMDs in the hands of a madman?The SNP?They voted against the war. Of course, they had no privy counsellors at the time so they wouldn't have been allowed to see all the inside information seen by Michael Howard and Chic Kennedy...Even if I had been anti independence I would have gone with the SNP. Why couldn't Blair or Cheney have waited 2 weeks for Dr Blix’s report?
I can't find a link Tris but I seem to remember reading something which indicated that had Blair had the guts to say NO to Iraq II then Bush would never have gone in on his own. THIS is whole crux of the Iraq II investigation that Chilcott was syupposed to be *ahem* investigating. Surely somewhere inside this ghost of a report there is evidence of this idea that Blair should have said NO and Bush would have stayed out as well.In my view Blair was, and probably still is, a warmonger although the U.N. prefer to call him a Middle East Peace Envoy for some gawd almighty obscure reason. Funny how he is all too happy to go to Israel but NOT so keen to go to Palestine ... I wonder why!I have heard on numereous occasions now that some in the media are looking at Whitehall as the cause of the hold up. Could we be looking at another whitewash coming down the track?I hope you have not buried that hatred of Thatcher and her obvious use of Falkland's war to bolster her ratings for the next G.E. that she won cause I have a sneaky suspicion that her *ahem* son, David Cameron, is looking at carrying out something similar.http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/555469/Hundreds-of-British-troops-are-sent-to-the-Falklands-for-a-security-boostAre we EVER going to get a government that cares MORE about its people than becoming the next best warmonger, legal or otherwise?
I'll nev3er get over my hatred for the wicked murdering cow. She personally gave an order to sink a ship that was retreating, killing hundreds of young men, because the figures showed more Brit deaths than Argentinian.If there is a hell then I trust she is enjoying whatever kind of torture they keep for mass murders.I see that while we didnt have any money for the people from Diego Garcia..."The MoD is to replace the islands’ ageing Rapier anti-air missile batteries with a £228million "Only quarter of a billion for an island with 2,000 people, 8,000 miles from England?Blair wouldn't have dared refuse Bush what he wanted. Both Wilson and Heath did refuse US presidents but Blair was too intoxsicated by the power of the Whitehouse to say no.Besides it was Bush that got him the job of peacemonger in a place that he had warmongered. irony? And he got a congressional medal, which completely devalues them for everyone else who ever received one.I trust that at some point he will join his "mother" Maggie in the deep pits of hell. They deserve each other.
I think the last I heard Tris Maggie was busy closing down the fires one by one! Word from below says that the Deil himsel is not best pleased.! LOL"The truth is whether the Iraq was right or wrong isn't the issuefor the nats its an outrage and it you didnt have that you would find another."Get over it Niko the issue IS Iraq II. YOU may not like the idea of your god-like leaders being quized over it but that is what it is. Irag II has far too many unanswered questions for it NOT to be the issue!There are many things we may all disagree on but I always thought that the investigation into Iraq II would have been at least ONE issue we COULD all agree ... apparently not!
LOL Arbroath. Maggie closed enough furnaces when she was on Earth. She fairly practised.The fiklm that Bill McDermott suggested, is really worth a watch. It is long, and at the beginning it's terribly slow and fragmented, but it improves as it goes along and I'm comforted to know that my thoughts on the West (ie American with its poodle) are not that much wide of the mark. He just adds even more horror, stupidity and greed to the West's crimes, along with those of the East.
I suggest that you all have a look at Bitter Lake on the BBC iPlayer to see how the West has got it so wrong over so many years by designing its policies in its own short term interests.
Thanks Bill.It's a western failure to have absolutely no understanding of what they are getting involved with, mixed with a disregard, instilled in the upper classes, that they are superior and have the right to dictate how other people should live... coupled with an intrinsic disregard for anyone who isn't THEM.I'll go look for it tonight.
Bitter Lake 2hrs 18mins long.
Very interesting.Unintended consequences...It's rather a disjointed production. I wish they had just told the story...
Agree and why are our politicians and bankers not in front of a judge and jury charged with corruption?
It improved as it went on.The whole problem seems to come from Saudi Arabia, and the West (mainly America and it's dim poodles who will do anything to stay "important").Having watched that, I find it even more repugnant that Cameron and Rothsay went to that man's funeral and that the queen had flags flying at half mast..
Thank you for including this speech in your blog. Pete Wishart is a powerful and articulate speaker and parliamentarian, and deserves more recognition for his efforts on behalf of us all. It was an odd moment, when the House of Commons showed Jack Straw sitting just a few feet away from Pete, and to observe his reactions. I think that the key points that Pete was making, reach straight into the heart of the democratic deficit in Britain. These are: (1) the Prime Minister and senior Cabinet colleagues consciously lied to Parliament, and (2) the combined critical response of the House of Commons, and the free press of the UK, failed to detect and expose these lies. This is not a matter of a political group emphasising certain bits of information rather than others, in order to make their case - that is probably an inevitable part of the political process. It is, instead, a matter of fabricated, knowingly-false statements. The Iraq war decision is a dramatic and highly significant example of 'false democracy' in Britain. But it is happening all the time, from the government through to many other organisations in the public and private sectors. We desperately need to develop more of a respect for truth. In my view, this is a priority for Scotland, both now and when we become an independent nation. Truth is not just an individual act - it requires all of us to work together, to be willing to question each other and listen to each other with open minds.
Hi JohnI agree that Pete is a powerful orator in the Commons and elsewhere. A natural performer, he makes his speeches interesting and listenable. Many could learn from him. I don't think that there can be much doubt that Blair and his senior colleagues knew that what they were selling us was a tissue of lies. Blair himself is far from stupid. As a lawyer, he should have a mind that can cut to facts and see through the waffle. The Secret Service surely wouldn't have tried to pull the wool over his eyes with doctoral theses that were 10 years out of date. I wouldn't try that with any of my bosses, none of whom could be described as bright.To be fair the BBC did try to investigate this... The Today programme did a report and we know that the upshot of that was that the informant they interviewed, Dr David Kelly, ended up committing suicide. Unfortunately, the most senior Labour figure to disagree to the point of resignation, Robin Cooke, had a heart attack at the top of a remote hill and is unable to tell his story.Did you see the programme that Bill McDermott proposed above (Cynical Highlander put in a hyperlink), Bitter Lake.it's long at over 2 hours, and in the initial stages it's rather fragmented and seemingly part of it are irrelevant, but it maps out the complete and utter mess that the West has made of the Middle East/Arab world over the last 80 years. Lack of understanding of other cultures seems to be the problem... and lack of respect too. Both sides clearly think that they are superior. neither is right.But the spread of the poisonous branch of the Muslim religion, Wahhabi, which Saudi Arabia harnessed for its own advantage originally, and then exported all over the Middle and Near East, combined with the inability of the West to understand anything except money making and the utter corruption of the banks has brought us to the mess we are in today. It is an excellent source of information, if, as I say, rather unimpressively presented.