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| Look at the state of that prat. I wonder what pantomime he's in! Alibaba and the Houses of Parliament Thieves? |
It is worth saying that wherever else they were lowered, flags were not flying at half mast in Scotland.
A Scottish government spokesman said that it was not the custom in Scotland to fly flags at half masts for foreign heads of state who had died.
Both Ruth Davidson and Jim Murphy seemed to be in agreement about this. Ruth was particularly scathing about the Saudi regime, its treatment of women and of course its harsh regime of punishments for a wide variety of non offences, including blogging. Particular credit to her given that Cameron positively foamed at the mouth over his late majesty. Miliband was less effusive, but still diplomatically polite.
The Saudi king is a dictator. There isn't any sort of democracy in the country. And yet at the drop of a hat the UK, which seems to spend a great deal of money trying to force democracy on dictatorial regimes in the Middle and Near East, which are not overseen by royals, sends the prime minister and Charlie out to fete the new king at enormous expense. Surely Po-Face Hammond and some junior royal like Eddy or one of the ugly sisters, would have done fine, and possibly cost a bit less. Still spare no expense where the nobs are concerned, that's their motto!
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| Help yourself to anything you want. The plebs are paying. |
But it seems that the UK economy is dependent on these weapons sales and that they can't afford to upset the sheiks lest they go to France or China for their weaponry.
Anyway, rant over about Saudi. I just wanted to clear up the lie that because England has lowered its flags in honour of the man, that necessarily means that Scotland has done the same.
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| YUK |
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| AWWWWW, sweet! |
I'm confused here Tris.
ReplyDeleteI hope some someone here is more knowledgeable than me on all things *ahem* Royal.
Now I know else where in cyber-land I am the village idiot but even I am pretty certain that King Abdullah is NOT, well he wasn't the last time I checked anyway, the King of the U.K. Therefore I have to ask ... Why were government buildings in England flying the Butcher's apron at half mast?
I'm only asking, you understand, because in Saudi, where I believe, although I stand to be corrected here, King Abdullah WAS King they did not and are not flying their flag, the Saudi flag, at half mast.
This surely has to raise another question, sorry Munguin. If Saudi are NOT flying their national flag at half mast why the hell is Westminster flying the Butcher's Apron at half mast?
I didn't know they didn't do it in Saudi. Mind to be honest I don't give a toss.
DeleteI'm just glad that we didn't do it here. What they do in Saudi is thier business. It's not ours, and we should keep out of it... But that doesn't stop me thinking that Abdullah was a murdering old tyrant, who certainly doesn't deserve any respect from us.
But what the English do is their business. As Miss Brodie would have said...For those that like that kind of thing, that is the kind of thing they like.!
Well as Munguin and Tris remarked they are profuse purchasers of British arms, and well the New King has to be welcomed and reminded of the fact. Then of course all those Princes who come here, are educated, learn to gamble and "ahem", whore far from the sight of their populace. (Sorry folks, try as I might I could find no other word).
DeleteI agree that purchasing all these arms when they fight no wars makes you wonder who they are meant for. I understand they do keep their populace, their own mind you, in comfort, they do not tend to extend it to their servants who come from elsewhere.
To add to Arbroath's comment; the people of Scotland are sovereign, not the monarch. The people of Scotland have oil, why then, in the name of whatever god or prophet; are we treated as subhuman, a non-state?
ReplyDeleteWe have not entered, into war, we have been lead by fools.
We wish no harm but, have harm done to us.
We wish only to conduct our, own affairs; monitory, socially and fairly.
We have no axe to grind, no need to be more than we are, excepting; poor, downtrodden and subservient.
We wish to be free, free to choose our own future. Without the baggage of ancient history of glories past, they are but dust in the wind, you cannot feed a fair society on dust; you need hope, fairness and a future worth grasping, they are the fertile soil, on which to build a nation; to think otherwise is the old politics, of days that never were and will never be, unless we break the chains of Westminster servitude.
Patience Jim. It's coming.
DeleteTris and Jim if you care to, I had the wonderful experience of reading the words from a self confessed NO voter, a certain Effie Dean. According to this person us Nationalists took her/his country away on September 19th (I thought they won). He/she is no longer Scottish or proud Scot, but British. Now I thought that I had lost on September 19th and I was the Stateless person, just goes to show the convoluted logic these idiots come up with.
DeleteI am with Tris, Independence is just around the corner, I cannot tell you when or how, though I doubt we will have another referendum. I have been wrong before but in this I have been sure of ever since the fall of the Berlin Wall and the fall of the Soviet Union. These things happen without warning.
Sorry for going O/T Tris, but just listening to SKY doing their "We all love Churchill" bit. What a load of old guff!
ReplyDelete"We will fight them on the beaches .... we will never surrender!" Unless of course we are talking about the total abandonment of the 51st Highland Division who fought the Germans in France to a standstill long enough for the Dunkirk evacuation to be completed. However no such offer of rescue was made to the whole of the 51st Division who were totally abandoned by Churchill to the Germans.
Not only that but that "we will never surrender" guff? That is EXACTLY what it is ... GUFF! It is well known that Churchill had plans drawn up so that if Hitler invaded Scotland all British troops would be withdrawn to England leaving Scotland and the Scots to their fate at the hands of the Nazi's. Now excuse me for being the village idiot here but was Scotland NOT part of the U.K. during the period 1939 - 1945? If it was then why ABANDON it ? Oh I forgot it was full of those upity Scots.
Nice to see that what Churchill thought about Scotland and the Scots during WW II still holds true today!
We have and will always be, the untermench, as far as Westminster is concerned.
DeleteMy father was captured while fighting that rearguard to allow the evacuation of Dunkirk and spent the rest of the war in a prison camp in Poland culminating in what is known as the death march back into Germany ahead of the Russian advance. He was lucky because the Germans who manned his camp were moderates and because of his experience my father always had respect for the Germans. What did he get from the UK government? The minute he died his war pension was stopped and my mother receives nothing. (And I mean the minute that he died.)
DeleteThat, sadly, is not a unique story; even more so with the merchant navy.
DeleteGlad to hear your father survived the abandonment of the 51st Highland Division by Churchill Anon. From what I have read in the past you father was indeed one of the lucky ones unfortunately some others were less fortunate.
DeleteSorry to hear about how your mother was treated re your father's war pension. I would like to think that was an unfortunate oversight and a rare occurrence however I think we all know it is not. This is the result of what happens when you have a government in one country and you live in a different country. Sad, very sad but one day we will resolve this anomaly, unfortunately not in time for your mother sadly.
I'm afraid that both Arbroath 1320's statements are inaccurate.
DeleteFirst, it is not true that "Churchill had plans drawn up so that if Hitler invaded Scotland all British troops would be withdrawn to England leaving Scotland and the Scots to their fate at the hands of the Nazi's". This "fact" was invented in March 2013, in a press article supposedly reporting what was in my book "If Hitler Comes. Preparing for invasion: Scotland 1940". The "fact" was used in the months between March 2013 and the referendum as an example of the "victimhood" of Scotland at the hands of the "the English". I wrote an article about the invention, spread and misuse of this "fact", here: http://www.thinkscotland.org/thinkpolitics/articles.html?read_full=12675 As I describe in my book, Scotland was relatively well defended, considering how few well-equipped troops there were in the UK after Dunkirk, and our coasts are still littered with the defences built in 1940-41.
Second, the 51st Division did not fight "the Germans in France to a standstill long enough for the Dunkirk evacuation to be completed" because the 51st was not with the BEF at Dunkirk but 200km to the SW, attached to the French IX Corps. After the evacuation from Dunkirk was finished on the 4th of June the 51st continued to fight alongside the French and withdrew to St Valery, on the coast, on the 11th of June, the original plan to leave by Le Havre having had to be abandoned. The Royal Navy evacuation planned for the night of the 11th could not take place because of fog and because German artillery by then overlooked the harbour from the cliffs. The loss of the 51st was tragic but not an act of brutal indifference to the fate of Scots soldiers.
Thanks for all these comments. I have no knowledge of the history of the war, so I can make no judgement on it one way or the other.
DeleteWhat I will say is to Anon above, how sad I was to hear that his mother was treated so shabbily by the government. I know that they do that kind of thing. They apparently even ask for money back from the estate of lads who dies on duty and had been paid to the end of the month.
Tacky second rate organisation the MoD.
It seems we have always been bullied and guilted ito supporting our brave boys", which I'm sure many of not most of them are, but while the government talks a good talk on the troops, it does absolutely sod all to help them once they come home. (Duncan Smith hang your filthy head in shame).
I'm reminded of the Kipling poem....
I WENT into a public 'ouse to get a pint o' beer,
The publican 'e up an' sez, " We serve no red-coats here."
The girls be'ind the bar they laughed an' giggled fit to die,
I outs into the street again an' to myself sez I:
O it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' " Tommy, go away " ;
But it's " Thank you, Mister Atkins," when the band begins to play
The band begins to play, my boys, the band begins to play,
O it's " Thank you, Mister Atkins," when the band begins to play.
I went into a theatre as sober as could be,
They gave a drunk civilian room, but 'adn't none for me;
They sent me to the gallery or round the music-'alls,
But when it comes to fightin', Lord! they'll shove me in the stalls!
For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' " Tommy, wait outside ";
But it's " Special train for Atkins " when the trooper's on the tide
The troopship's on the tide, my boys, the troopship's on the tide,
O it's " Special train for Atkins " when the trooper's on the tide.
Yes, makin' mock o' uniforms that guard you while you sleep
Is cheaper than them uniforms, an' they're starvation cheap.
An' hustlin' drunken soldiers when they're goin' large a bit
Is five times better business than paradin' in full kit.
Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an` Tommy, 'ow's yer soul? "
But it's " Thin red line of 'eroes " when the drums begin to roll
The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
O it's " Thin red line of 'eroes, " when the drums begin to roll.
We aren't no thin red 'eroes, nor we aren't no blackguards too,
But single men in barricks, most remarkable like you;
An' if sometimes our conduck isn't all your fancy paints,
Why, single men in barricks don't grow into plaster saints;
While it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an` Tommy, fall be'ind,"
But it's " Please to walk in front, sir," when there's trouble in the wind
There's trouble in the wind, my boys, there's trouble in the wind,
O it's " Please to walk in front, sir," when there's trouble in the wind.
You talk o' better food for us, an' schools, an' fires, an' all:
We'll wait for extry rations if you treat us rational.
Don't mess about the cook-room slops, but prove it to our face
The Widow's Uniform is not the soldier-man's disgrace.
For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an` Chuck him out, the brute! "
But it's " Saviour of 'is country " when the guns begin to shoot;
An' it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' anything you please;
An 'Tommy ain't a bloomin' fool - you bet that Tommy sees!
Yes, I remember my Father's words about Churchill very well. HE was not a fan and since reading my history neither am I.
Deletehttps://archive.today/NuLaA Was the castle flag drooped?
ReplyDeleteMight have been . The Brits control the castle in Edinburgh because it's a military establishment.
DeleteChurchill had a bad experience in Scotland, Arb. He was M.P. for Dundee in the 1920s, before being voted out in favour of a candidate standing on a prohibition ticket, one Ned Scrymgeour(sp).
ReplyDeleteThis may have tainted his attitude to Scotland.
http://www.britishpathe.com/video/election-sensation-ned-aka-the-sensation-of-the-el/query/shock
DeleteThanks Jim.
DeleteI was told many stories of Churchill when he was Liberal MP for Dundee.
He wasn't much of a constituency MP of course, and on his rare visits I heard that he usually stayed with the Earl and Airley who was some sort of cousin (you know how they are all intermarried). He only really had to do with the bigwigs of the town, one of whom was Mr D C Thomson.
One day Mr Thomson was walking through the Howff (a cemetery in the centre of Dundee) and he saw Churchill walking towards him. He doffed his hat, as was customary in these days, and said "Good Morning".
Churchill completely ignored him and walked past without a how d'ya do, or even touching his hat.
Mr Thomson went straight to his office and issued a memorandum to all editorial staff. In future Churchill would not be named in any Thomson paper, but referred to as the Member for Dundee.
And he never was again until the second war.
Alex... Must have horrified him being beaten by a prohibitionist, given that he was a bit of an old soak. Of course maybe not at that time, but I remember reading in Tony Benn's diaries that in Benn's earliest days in parliament he would see Churchill in the bars at lunchtime utterly gaga with drink.
DeleteOld soak, Tris, he spent much of the war dead drunk and he was not one to respect the rationing, not for him starvation rations, a proper meal was always served to the Prime Monster. He has a rotten track record and we can be assured it might have been better had he taken his decisions sober.
DeleteI've heard that he would send for the generals and give instructions about how a battle should be fought, and they would nod and say yes sir and then go do it their way.
DeleteThe one thing he was good at was spin. He had the Brits believing that they could win, long before the Russians made it likely!
Can i just say that is a lie !!! ........the st Andrews cross was at half mast at the brit barracks in Stirling!
ReplyDeleteThanx for the clarification, a death is always a sad time, but I'm not sure we should be mourning this one.
DeleteAnon: I imagine that the armed services must follow the dictates of the English Department of Culture Media and Sport and not those of the Scottish government.
DeleteThey clearly think that as the tyrant was a friend of the royal family and a large purchaser of military hardware from Brit arms pedlars, it is Ok to salute his death.
The government of Scotland stated that it is not its practice to fly a flag at half mast on the death of a foreign head of state.
As with the English instructions, they are not set in obligatory. There way well have been local authorities who disregarded the Secretary of States request. Likewise there may have been local authorities in Scotland who felt that Abdullah deserved a dipped flag.
Stirling Castle is no longer a military installation. It is solely a tourist site run by Historic Scotland (part of the Scottish Government). Last time I was there the military presence was down to the Argyl &Sutherland Highlanders museum.
DeleteAccording to Wikipedia it is also their Home Headquarters.
DeleteBut as I said, the note form the English part of the Westminster government said that compliance was optional (see CH's link above) It was simply a recommendation.
I imagine that not dipping the flag would likely be optional. Local authorities are the bodies responsible for this.
The Scottish statement said that it was not the policy of the Scottish government to dip flags for dead foreign heads of state.
The regiment no longer exists and the museum is its only surviving echo. Even the successor (5thScots) has been reduced to one company. The Reserve Forces 7th Scots has a platoon base in Stirling but not at the castle. Someone at Historic Scotland made the decision to honour the dead tyrant. Probably worth asking HS or their minister (Fiona Hyslop) about it.
DeleteFair enough. As I said, its not a dictate. Even the London lot couldn't' insist that he was respected in that way. Spo yes, they must have made up their own mind. It's possible too that some councils may have ignored the Scottish government, as I'm sure that some English councils ignored their government..
DeleteThe Scottish government said that, I suppose diplomatically, that they sent their condolences to the Saudi people, although franklyu I imagein that the bulk of them will be glad to get rid of him. The trouble is his successor is cut from the same cloth.
I expect that the Windsors will get on fine with him. They like these Middle Eastern absolute monarchs. Someone pointed out that Holyrood Palace had the Lion Rampant at half mast, so I suppose Liz must have been weeping.
I wonder if Cameroon managed to sell any more tanks or planes while he was at the funeral breakfast. Kinda thing he's good at. I can see him with second hand cars.
I'm sure you heard that the flags were at half mast on Welsh Government buildings - at the diktat of Labour ministers of course. Scotland is fortunate to have self-respect with an SNP government. Dafydd Williams
ReplyDeleteDafydd: I didn't know what had happened in Wales. Thanks for the info.
ReplyDeleteI just had a look on the BBC site which had the headline about the Tory leader in Scotland protesting about the UK government stance.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-30953346
The request appears to have originated from Buckingham Palace which, of course, is friendly with the Saudi royals.
I suppose I can understand that the Scottish government can't say "Ya Boo Sucks, Glad the old Bastard is dead!" It's not the way diplomacy works so I am satisfied that they gave the right answer:
A Scottish government spokesman said: "We offer the people of Saudi Arabia our condolences following the passing of King Abdullah.
"Flags are not routinely flown at half-mast from Scottish government buildings to mark the deaths of foreign heads of government or state."
As it happens, Jim Murphy, the leader of Labour in Scotland agreed with the government here. Clearly so did our Tories!!.
A quote from the BBC article suggests that the original request came from Buck House. "The UK government's Department for Culture, Media and Sport (DCMS) sent out the request. "Officials said it was a matter of protocol and that the formal request had been made by Buckingham Palace, which is also flying its flag at half mast".
That would explain why anything to do with the royals, all over the UK would be flying flags at half mast.
I'm still perplexed by Stirling Castle.
As the Scottish government said, it just isn't done here, regardless of who the head of state is, apart presumably, for Liz.
Good article Tris.
ReplyDeleteReally important people know Scotland won't doff its cap to murderous despotic knuckle draggers, whilst specimens like Cameron etc simper and beg for arms deals.
No idea what Charlie-boy was doing, was it the nativity?
Thanks Paul.
DeleteMaybe Charlie was preparing a dramatic performance for the vase of flowers on the table. It better not have been the nativity if he was in Saudi, otehr wise he'll find his royal arse lashed...
The many usage of a flagpole will always be used whether for national symbol or for commercial purposes. As it carries every national symbol of any country, flagpoles symbolizes dignity, pride and the love of one's person to its native land and as an aid for advertisement this is a great help for people to know a business and this helps them prosper.
ReplyDeleteHappy new year
ReplyDeleteHAPPY NEW YEAR......
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