Thursday 28 February 2013


Superb contribution to the debate, here, from Stewart Hosie making excellent points about how little money will be saved, if any, and how much utter miserly will be inflicted upon the poor, the sick and the serving, in the carrying out of the policy.

Fascinatingly, this comes on the same day that the EU set limits on bankers' bonuses (and the RBS announced massive losses incurred by being obliged to replay money that they had stolen from unsuspecting customers, and fines from fiddling the LIBOR rate)...AND the same government which is inflicting this miserly on its working classes has protested strongly about any interference with how much these people take in bonuses. It doesn't do to inflict any "hardship" on bankers according to the Tory/Liberals, but as for the sick and the poor....pfffffff, who cares.

Well, according to this video, clearly Stewart and Jim McGovern do.

Jacob Reece-Mogg (the guy who went canvassing in Fife, driven by his nanny in a Bentley   makes a "useful" contribution to the debate, muttering some nonsense about Scottish Nationalism. That will make a big difference to people living on the streets because of his government's policies, but then, I suppose, criticising the SNP is easier than trying to find justification for this witless idea.

Evil is a very strong word, but, given what this will do to the most vulnerable people in the country, and how little it will return to the government, this is, even by Conservative standards, a thoroughly evil policy.

I foresee utter disaster in its wake.


  1. Thanks for that Tris..... Any idea of outcome?

    One can understand why Reece-Mogg requires a nanny..... Probably couldn't find his own anus with his hands tied behind his own back!

    1. 4 voted against

      Mundell Moore Carmichael and Swinton

  2. Think you need a swift correction. It was Jacob Rees-Mogg in a Bentley (only oiks drive - or are driven in - Rollers).

  3. What can one say about this insanity - I can only reach back to a time when we hand Labour politicians with backbone, and take a couple of quotes from one such Person; Auerin Bevan.

    "That is why no amount of cajolery, and no attempts at ethical or social seduction, can eradicate from my heart a deep burning hatred for the Tory Party that inflicted those bitter experiences on me. So far as I am concerned they are lower than vermin."

    and this one - about the suez crisis, but so more nuanced than anything I could write.

    "They have besmirched the name of Britain. They have made us ashamed of the things of which formerly we were proud. They have offended against every principle of decency and there is only one way in which they can even begin to restore their tarnished reputation and that is to get out! Get out! Get out!"

  4. First, thanks for that video Tris I enoyed watching it

    Hosie articulates the horror of this tory bedroom tax. The social, emotional, and economic harm it will cause (inflict perhaps a better descriptive) is sadly all too forseeable.

    Labour has game out very strongly against this tax on the poorest. And it is hard, as a Labour supporter, to see Labours good social security legacy being slowly eroded by this con-dem coalition.

    EMA - gone.
    Child tax credits - being abolished
    NHS - soon to be abolished in England

    This coalition can only be stopped if Scots vote Labour in 2015 (assuming separation fails, as all the polls suggest it shall).

    SNP and Labour voters need to learn not to hate each other so much, tactical anti-tory voting is a vital tool in the arsenal of our social democracy.

  5. Dean you are fooling yourself. Scotland kept voting Labour from 1979. The simple fact is that if the south of England; were the majority of the UK live, vote Tory then a Tory government is what we get. Do not forget that Scotland kept Labour on life support through the 80's and 90's. Despite the self evident evils of Thatchers goverment, the English kept voting her back in. Scotland could be safely ignored if they controlled the South of England. It was this democratic deficit that led to the push for devolution in 1997. The tories in Scotland have never been forgiven in Scotland. 88% of Scotland will never vote for them, but its the English who need to vote the coalition out if you want them out of Westminster.

    The danger is now that Labour in England are trying to appeal to the right. Ed Miliband was not quoted out of context when he asked the English to think of him as "Thatcher". Scotland on the other hand is moving to the left. Lamont seems to want to define Scottish Labour to the right of the SNP and launch attacks on Universalism that sound "Tory".

    I do not think Miliband has the chops to be prime minister. And I think that Cameron could very well be back in power. I am truly frightened of what that means for Scotland. So in 2014 I am hoping the Union with England comes to an end. It's the only way to protect us from being sidelined by Westminster, because I geniunely believe Labour are too closely aligned with many of Camerons policies, given that they had already promised to be worse than Thatcher in 2010.

  6. What an excellent speech Stuart gave. Rees-Mogg was an eejit but fair's fair the 2 Labour speakers put aside party politics to make helpful comments. Maybe they didn't get the memo about the Bain principle! Dean is partially right - I'm not sure that problem is with the voters - I think it's the SNP and Labour politicans (particularly the latter!) who need to stop fighting each other and fight against injustice.

    1. Even better speech that Stewart made!! Facepalm......

  7. It was a good speech, sadly to an empty chamber. I wasn't able to watch much of the debate sadly and will have to try and catch up on iplayer if I can. This tax, as has already been said, is a shocking piece of social cleansing primarily I suspect aimed at London. The Labour Party may have voted against but have not said what their alternative would be, I suspect it will be nothing. If, and it's a huge if, Labour gain power in 2015 then I would not expect them to reverse this in any way. This party is a right wing party now who mostly agree with this legislation. It is very easy when in opposition to vote against and when in power very difficult to stick to your principles.

    Dean you might be correct about next year but I wouldn't be too confident because the tide is turning and I am now suspecting that a lot of labour voters will vote YES and say they voted NO. Right now the NO campaign is losing the argument and another 16 months will change a lot of things.


  8. Dean

    The Torys have found moving father to the right easier only because
    the Trend under Labour was that way.,,,
    Labour did invent ATOS assessments in 2008 now I would like to ask
    Ed milliband why ??
    Even i wonder what would of happened if Labour had won the election
    they may have taken it as a vindication of their methods .On this one Labour
    has not got clean hands.

    'SNP and Labour voters need to learn not to hate each other so much,'

    Don't believe its possible unfortunately there can be one party of the left
    in Scotland problem is both are not very left and will probably swing to the right
    to gain votes.......ah well such is life.


    Evil is a very strong word,
    Or accurate.

    Sometimes/most times I people dont understand what the English Torys
    think in their strange minds. We see poverty ill health unemployment as
    sad and terrible injustices to our fellow people.
    Now the Torys do not see that at all it isn't all people get what they deserve
    or they should try harder.
    No part of life Torys believe is hard and sad and people suffer they always have and always will the state cant change it and really shouldn't try .
    It only in the long term makes things worse.

    What you have to do is accept that is way it is you can as an individual help
    if you wish through charitable acts.
    which for a Tory is the best way of tackling perceived injustices but further
    than that you have to see suffering not only as part of life but the reason for life.
    you have to see it as wonderful as a redeeming feature of life.
    where we see ugliness they see beauty.

    Its no good pointing out to the Torys how people are being persecuted
    because to the Torys that is there intention.

    Evil is a very strong word,
    no its not strong enough by far

  9. Welcome Boorach, and thanks Fairfor.

    The usual suspects, then, who either don't have any poor people in their constituencies, or who have already lined up another job for themselves somewhere, and who therefore don't give a stuff.

  10. Keith b.... Correction done, and thanks very much for pointing it out.

    I suppose it is a bit 'infra dignitatus' to be driven around in a RR... like some soap star who's made a bit of dosh.

    I'm so out of touch with what is the done thing.

    And yes, I should definitely have remembered that William is dearly departed...

  11. Great quotes from a real Labour man, James. A man who clearly (from the first quote) suffered at the hands of this party of toffs that cares nothing for the poor, even when they are responsible for making them poor.

    As this will end up costing money rather than saving it, clearly what drives their initiative (if you can call it that) is a burning desire to reshape the country into a them and us society. The with the money and the power, and us with nothing.

    To call them the nasty party is complimenting them.

  12. Dean. I'm glad you found it interesting.

    I can't better what James said in reply, so I won't try. But I do agree that it is good to see Labour voting with the SNP on this.

    Willie Bain's principle of automatically voting against anything that the SNP proposes, even if it was Labour's policy, was just plain foolish, although not unexpected from him.

    There is much that they could work with the SNP on for the benefit of Scotland and its people, as, to be fair, the Tories used to do when they had a proper leader in Scotland, and the Liberals ...ditto.

  13. PP... Almost nothing is totally one sided, and I'm sure that there are occasions when the SNP are every bit as cantankerous and awkward as Labour. And as I said to Dean, I wish that they would work together more for the benefit of US, who pay them.

    OK... some people want an independent Scotland, and some people want to remain a region of the UK, but when it comes to issues that affect the people all of that should be secondary.

    It doesn't hurt to say, I think, that an independent Scotland wouldn't have to deal with the problems caused by policies of stupid rich boys, whose houses have 10 spare bedrooms.

    Just a thought... Can we be assured that MPs from now on will only be provided with expenses for a one-bedroomed flat in London at tax payers' expense.

    I seem to remember that it was pointed out during the expenses scandal that they had to have decent houses at our expense because their children and the spouses had to come and live with them sometimes in order to maintain their family life.

    Didn't a cabinet minister have her elderly parents to stay in a house we pay for?,

    If MPs only see their kids once every month, that's something they should have to deal with, but of course they won't because they make the rules...and they are them, and we are only us.

    BTW, if Stewart is reading this, I'm sure he'll not get bent out of shape about a wee spelling slip. He's not really that kind of guy!

  14. I noticed the empty chamber, Bruce.

    No one's that interested in a motion put forward by the SNP, and most of them don't give a toss about what will happen to people who are made homeless, or as you say "cleansed" from London.

    God only knows what these people will do in the north of England, where they will house them, how they will find work for them. There's no work there anyway.

    The Tories will have their shiny capital with many fewer poor people though, and that's probably what matter most to them.

    Who was it who said that the homeless are what you step over on your way to the opera?

    Liberal Democrats are voting for this. I never thought I'd see the day. Shame on them. I hope they all have jobs lined up for 2015 because they are so finished!

  15. What am I saying? I hope they DON'T have jobs lined up and have to go on the dole.

  16. Learn Poll Tax lesson and put Cam Tax to bed

    Meanwhile, an old aged pensioner and a use layabout, living in social housing with 775 rooms, 78 bathrooms, occasionally getting an overnight visit from some decrepit hand chopper, fed meals on wheels, with visits from unemployed grandkids, with spare bedrooms kept for them, will be spared the Bedroom Tax.

    We are all in it together so pick your parents carefully.

  17. Interesting, and in many ways logical CH.

  18. Yeah Niko... Pretty much agree with most of that.

    One of the parties has to move to the right. At the moment it is the Labour party under Ms Lamont. I don't think that she is on the right...she certainly didn't used to be (is that grammatical?). I think it's Red Ed who is a bit of a closet Blue, or desperately trying to convince the stock broker belt in Surrey that he is blue.

    But who knows where the SNP would go if Salmond were not the leader. It once was the Tartan Tories; under Salmond it is the Tartan Reds...

    We've said this before; the SNP comes from every political shade. Who knows what their future is.

    I can't think of a better way of describing the Tories than "evil". It is strong, but so is watching people being chucked out of their homes; out of their town in some cases, because they can't afford to live there.

    It's a terrifying thought. What is possibly even more terrifying is what these people will do next that wont't in any way touch their rich and privileged lives?

    Who will they come after to put them in their place?

    1. Seeking to make the poor homeless to save money for a recession caused by the 1% ... while still renewing trident ... that sounds 'evil' to me; at least in moral terms.

  19. I suppose this is what Call-me-Dave means by 'big society' ...

    I miss the MacMillan days, when you had Tory PMs standing up for working men, advocating policies to maximise employment. How low the Tories have sunk ...

  20. Labour coucillors propose a statue for Mrs Thatcher

    1. "“Contrary to some rumours, despite our personal strength of feeling about her, we feel the controversy and outside interest around Lady Thatcher provides an opportunity to attract international tourists to our town, who spent £11bn in our region last year.

      This cannot be ignored."

      All sounds above board to me. I hope the Labour team carry on doing their level best to promote their area and attract investment.
      What is the problem?

    2. No, peoples communities jobs and aspiration before silly dogma.

    3. Compromise with a statue of Meryl Streep?

    4. It migt still be standing after a few week!

  21. Lets get rid of this myth that Labour is anywhere near the centre ground when its nearest political rival is the DUP.

    UK Parties

    And more interestingly is looking About The Political Compass and seeing how the UK is heading towards Fascism by default rather than deliberate design..

  22. Cynical, once again, you represent all the worst qualities of a fanatical cybernat

    1. The problem Dean is your closed mind from being indoctrinated in unionism aka Westminster style and unable or unwilling to accept facts and prefer your arrogant stance.

      As to fanatical I want Scotland to decide what it wants not what the City of London wants as my mind is open not narrow tracked like yours is. No benefit from why we are better together from yourself yet as magic is not your forte!

    2. The left needs to start again: interview with Ken Loach

      We’ve been talking about reforming the labour party for a century haven’t we? Since Ramsay McDonald walked away from the general strike… And the 1945 government was a blip really, in the Labour party’s achievement, but I can’t see the Labour party developing a socialist leadership. I can’t see it. I’ve been on the fringes of politics for 50 years and this is what people have said at every point, and the Labour party has moved consistently to the right in its leadership.

      No doubt another 'fanatical cyberbrit'.

    3. LOL CH. Indeed he is.

  23. Yes, Dean. It is evil, by any standards. In a way it is worse (if that's possible) because of all the people who contributed to the complete mess that the UK is in, the poor are the least responsible.

    They may have contributed to personal debt, but only because the bankers told them it was fine to do that... and in any case it's a tiny fraction of what the rest of them did.

  24. Well, it's up to them. If they want a statue of her, fine. As well as tourists it will attract other people. They must know that. After all, look at what happened to the last one.

    Yes, there are those who slavishly love that woman and there are those who would like to chop her head off for real.

  25. No Dean... that's rubbish. CH is right; there is a relentless drive to the right. it is very scary.

    Someone asked earlier: How much of what these fiends are doing will be reversed by Labour when next they are in?

    They didn't change anything that Thatcher and major had brought in.

    Britain is unrecognisable from the days of Mr MacMillan.

    The benefits will not be replaced; the poor will still be hounded. Labour brought in ATOS and persecution of the ill.

    let's just repeat that: The 'left wing' party brought in persecution of the sick causing thousands of them to die?!

    Just out of interest. Did Scottish labour agree with ATOS?

  26. True, CH... All the royals... and what about Cameron and the other cabinet ministers that have grace and favour residences.

    How many bedrooms does Chequers have?

    1. I believe IDS has scrounged taxpayers money for all of his working life I'll try and find the link again and post it, he isn't the only MP like that.

  27. For info:

    Gangster Bankers: Too Big to Jail

    lso known as the Hong Kong and Shanghai Banking Corporation, HSBC has always been associated with drugs. Founded in 1865, HSBC became the major commercial bank in colonial China after the conclusion of the Second Opium War. If you're rusty in your history of Britain's various wars of Imperial Rape, the Second Opium War was the one where Britain and other European powers basically slaughtered lots of Chinese people until they agreed to legalize the dope trade (much like they had done in the First Opium War, which ended in 1842).

    This is the UK only now it is the most vulnerable within these shores who will pay with their well being to fund these sharks ('its' my spelling of arks that is fanatical).

  28. Ruth Davidson, CH, who went to school and to university, then worked for the BBC and then parliament, noted that a large proportion of Scots don't contribute to the economy!

    Well she would know.

  29. ...and there are those who are proud of British (and European) colonial history!