Scots have been accused of being racist and fascist by Nigel Farage.
Does he know the meaning of the words? Does his colleague Mr Northcott?
What does Farage think of the tweets shown above (click to enlarge) from Mr Northcott?
Farage accused Thursday's small crowd, some estimates said 20 people (Nigel had it at 50), of being anti-English because they told him they didn't want to see the union jack in Scotland again.
Does he know what the flag of England is?
Did he know that one of the organisers of the protest is English?
Nigel was launching his party's bid to take the by election seat in Donside.
Does he have any idea how far away from Edinburgh Donside is? (As Bella Caledonia said, can you imagine him launching an election bid for Leeds from Birmingham?)
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| Farage and Thatcher. She's the one ON the mug |
Farage was outraged that in a democracy he wasn't even allowed to make his point before being shouted down. I'd concede him a point there. We should have let him tell us what his policies were: policies like repatriating powers to Westminster, getting rid of women's and gay rights, abolishing our fairer system of elections, adopting English policies on education (£9,000 a year) and health (selling off the health service) and public services, before we told him we didn't want any of it.
But Farage wasn't so keen to make his point when he was asked, politely, about his party's dismal showings in Scotland. BBC Scotland's telephone interview was relatively easy going compared with what SNP ministers have to handle. There were no hard hitting questions on some of the dodgier UKIP members, who earned the party the reputation for being clowns; no questions about Farage and his mates in Brussels and Strasbourg allegedly missing vital committee meetings where British fishing interests were in question, because they were allegedly drunk. (Interesting that Northcott above seemed to find it strange that a "jock" would be sober enough to string a sentence together.
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| This is Mr Northcott. The one with the red nose |
In his answers he conflated anti UK sentiments with anti English sentiments. And complained that he had been surrounded by people who wanted to take Scotland out of the UK. How on earth can he criticise an independence movement when his own party's name is the UK INDEPENDENCE Party.
But for all that, given his chance to put his point, he put down the phone in the huff because he sensed hatred. Jeez, the man needs to get out more.
Can you imagine how Alex Salmond would have dealt with that?
Whilst I agree with much you say, I'm very disappointed by the behaviour of the protestors. Words like 'scum' and 'racist' aren't appropriate in most circumstances.
ReplyDeleteIt was the media who said there were 50 there, not Farage.
Sadly now Farage is making the most of it.
Yes supporters don't need this type of bullying support. What will win the argument is having a sound argument presented with dignity and empathy for those who have yet to decide.
Having a rent-a-mob on the streets only brings the Yes campaign into disrepute. Who cares if one of those arrested was English? Very few. But those who aren't much interested in politics may read the newspapers and listen to the media.
This is a good example of what we need to avoid in future. Letting fools lose, in the name of independence, is just creating a big stick for the No bunch to beat us.
As for the Twitter twit, yes his nastiness is doing the rounds on the blogs but that's as much publicity he'll get. My neighbours won't hear about him and will care even less because he's standing south of the border.
Let's not play tit-for-tat. There are never winners in that game and I want us to win.
I can't understand why so many are defending the antics of this bunch of verbal thugs. They certainly don't deserve it.
should have said 'loose'. Apologies.
ReplyDeleteThat's a fun reversal of the usual mistake! :)
DeleteI take your points, SR. Scum is a horrible word to use.
DeleteFarage's views are repugnant to me, and the way he goes about his job, neglecting committee votes that are important to Scots and other peoples from these islands is a gross dereliction of duty, possibly motivated by the fact that if he did his job properly and represented British interests there would be a deal less for him to moan about in the EU.
However, it doesn't help that there are people who shout that kind of insult at politicians who have been democratically elected, albeit in another country.
If Farage stuck to his policies of getting Britain out of the UK I would respect if not agree with him, but his party's right wing hatred of Jews, Muslims, Eastern Europeans, women, gays and the poor, not to mention Celts is anathema to me. He makes me sick to my stomach.
I personally would not call him scum, although I detest what he stands for. But on every side there are people who perhaps don't behave in a way the people a deal older than them would. Students from Edinburgh university this time, but it could be anywhere else.
I apologise for my mistake about who said that there were 50. Farage certainly quoted them, but I didn't see anything like that number.
And they were not anti English. They were anti-British, as I am. I want to only ever see the union flag in Scotland flying over their embassy. Farage is either so stupid, or manipulative that he failed to recognise that the English flag is not red white and blue.
ha ha... I wonder how many times I've made that mistake ..loose, lose...argh. English is such a hard language.
As I understand it, nobody silenced Farage, or prevented him from articulating anything. He had his press conference, and declined to respond to questions by the protesters. Making this about free speech is utterly disingenuous.
ReplyDeleteI'd like to echo a comment from a poster on WoS.
"I’m starting to understand what living in East Germany must have been like with its constant diet of propaganda media and twisting of facts together with the notion that public displays of dissent are somehow now unacceptable and borderline criminal behaviour."
Time and time again the version of an event publicised by the media bears only a passing resemblance to what actually happened. Independence supporters are invited to condemn an almost entirely fictitious account, and any attempt to explain that that didn't actually happen is lambasted as "condoning abuse" or something like that. Remember Susan Calman, the last "outrage" that was completely made up?
We need to stop going along with this.
They are inordinately thin skinned, Rolf, for people who blame the financial mess that Britain is in on Jews and who call Muslims filthy.
DeleteYes, I understand what you are saying about East Germany, or equally in Hitler's Germany, or Orwell's 1984.
There is a great deal that we need to stop going along with, as a glace through the pages of Private Eye will tell us.
Oops, sorry, missed an "e" off your name... :)
Delete"Having a rent-a-mob on the streets only brings the Yes campaign into disrepute." But who were "rent-a-mob", and who hired them? What actual connection did this have to the Yes campaign?
ReplyDeleteNever mind about them being English (though they were), the organisers were affiliated to the Labour party. Are we going to hear Ed Miliband or Johann Lamont asked to apologise for their behaviour?
I pointed that out somewhere else, Rolfe.
DeleteOne of the leaders was not only English; he was an employee of sorts of the Labour Party in Scotland.
I'd be interested to hear Mrs Lamont's comments on him...but of course they won't let her out of the bunker in case she puts her foot in it.
One of the organisers of demo.
ReplyDeleteOne of those arrested.
UKIP is a 'racist' party led by nutters and whose members are resigning the party daily for their online rants. A councillor of 2 weeks has bitten the dust for his out of place comments online.
I hope Tom won't mind, but for those who can't use the link I've printed his post here. This is a witness report.
DeleteTom Hogg says:
18 May, 2013 at 10:57 am
Again, I was there, not as a student agitator (I’m a 51 year old businessman), but as interested and partisan observer. This whole affair has been blown out of all proportion by various vested interests and at no stage was anyone in any danger at all. In fact tourists were stopping to watch rather than rush by in fear of their safety, whilst the assembled press either stood back and watched (the print media) or were right in amongst the huddle with cameras and mics pointed at Farage. You can see the distinctive tall figure of Raymond Buchanan in many of the “mob” shots both still and video.
In my view the whole matter shows up UKIP for what they are; rank amateurs. The time and venue of the press call was all over Twitter more than 24 hours before it started. The pub was open to the public – I simply walked in past the two polis on the door and went up to the bar and ordered a pint while the media scrum was in full flow, all the time with a Yes badge clearly visible in my lapel. When the bar manager decided he had had enough, UKIP could not do anything but leave. They had no contingency plan at all.
While Farage was locked in I simply walked up to the pub door and stood beside the police and the UKIP people to earwig how they were going to sort it out. (Wear a suit – it makes you invisible when there are loads of other suits.) One lady was prepared to get her car to take him out, but it was parked at the St James Centre over a mile away. It was at this point that the police simply had enough and decided to remove him in a van. I stood right next to the police officer as he radioed in to colleagues to arrange the van.
During this time the protestors were all self marshalled to the west of the pub, ie up the hill. They could quite easily have kettled Farage had they wanted to given the weight of numbers, but they simply stood and waited until they got their chance to barrack Farage as he left.
As for reports that folk tried to stop the van from leaving, yes, there was a half hearted attempt from “Rachel” in her wheelchair, but the police simply said something like “c’mon hen, oot the way” and she moved immediately. Of course still pictures don’t show that, they show a bunch of scruffy oiks in front of the van.
The atmosphere at the demo was like a football match in the Scottish First Division, with a few songs, the odd “wanker” hand sign, but lots of laughter at the misfortune and disarray of the hapless UKIP folk. Threatening? Naw. Fun? Absolutely. The best Thursday after work that I have had in ages.
Edit… Also, one of the main chants that the students were shouting was anti-capitalist, not anti -UKIP, pro-independence or anti-English.
Nice try Ron!
ReplyDeleteFarage will soon regret his venture north of the border.
Good lord, if you work at a Catholic school maybe you should try to stem your hatred of them in your tweets.
DeleteTwitter will be the end of so many people. A few words in a moment of anger, or drunkenness and ...it's all over.
I'd suggest politicians try to avoid it at all costs.
Unlike me to quote His Royal highness Dave from Eton, but we all know what too many twits make, don't we?
I still would like to hear how Subrosa imagines "we" should in future avoid "this sort of thing", that is "letting fools loose, in the name of independence."
ReplyDeleteThe organisers were Labour party members and activists. Even if they hadn't been, is there some way I'm not spotting of preventing anyone at all from organising a demonstration with any sort of pro-independence banners they care to construct?
The thing we really need to avoid is accepting ownership of or responsibility for everything and anything anyone does that is then linked to the independence campaign. Including things we KNOW were done by Labour party activists, and including things we know didn't happen at all, for example the alleged "shit-storm of abuse" including death threats and the use of the c-word against Susan Calman.
There is no way at all to prevent unaffiliated heid-bangers doing daft things, there is no way at all to prevent black ops from the other side doing things to discredit the Yes campaign, and there is no way at all to prevent the press simply making stuff up and blaming "nationalists" for anything they like.
We need to challenge this, not meekly roll over and say, we're so sorry, we'll try to make all independence supporters be good boys and girls from now on. We can't, and even if we could it wouldn't make any difference.
That, Rolfe, is a very important point.
DeleteWe... I guess we are independence supporters...we can't top student activist groups from being student activist groups.
I didn't find much of what went on there whether frightening or defensive and having read a couple of eyewitness reports , I think we can say that it largely wasn't.
Most of the crowd that built up were spectators, businessmen in suits, tourists. Most of what the group were shouting was not "scum" but "jobs, jobs, jobs"... and why not? University students are concerned that they will have to go to Australia or new Zealand to get a job. Someone did shout scum, but, as you say, unless we start interfering with free speech we can't do much about this. he should grow a pair.
Farage keeps on about how he wasn't allowed his say, but as far as I can see he was. I thought that in times gone by politicians got on their soapbox and were heckled if they said unpopular things, and cheered oif they said popular things.
Farage says things that don't appeal here. He needs to accept this, even if he's Rupert Murdoch's latest toy in the ongoing battle against Cameron. Not everyone gives a toss what the Sun says.
And he really needs to sort out what the English flag looks like.
You wonder how he can be employed as a teacher.
ReplyDeleteby the nature of his job he must teach children who have parents
grandparents who are Scottish.Let alone any children of scots who have relocated to his school area.
One can only say if he had spoken in a similar vein about any
other ethnic groups within the UK he would probably be out of a
job. But then why should he be allowed to abuse Scottish people
in this way.
I get pished off with those who say its a just joke a laugh
and shrug it off its not a comic remark.
Its a long offensive racist diatribe on a people some of whom
Amazingly enough who vote for UKIP(not many i know) .
when you think of this man? consider the children he teaches
and what an example he may be showing them..Role model probably not eh?
As far as I can see, his anti-Moslem racism is even more offensive than the anti-Scottish stuff. Pretty scary from a teacher, I agree.
DeleteI think that now that his anti Catholic tweets have reached the ears of his employers and the school at which he teaches...a catholic school, he may find that he is no longer teaching.
DeleteHe's trying to say that his account with Twtter was hacked and that he didn't say any of these things, but unless it keeps on being hacked an he keeps on not noticing, over a period of several years, he's added lying to the charge sheet of hate tweets against Scots, Muslims and Catholics, not to mention poking fun at abused kids.
Great for a teacher. I trust he will be sacked. If I had a kid at that school he or she would not go back until his unsavory arse was kicked out the door.
I dunno when the English will see UKIP for what they are. There is a vacancy in England for a party that will take them out of Europe and work on immigration reduction, but without the unsettling overtones of wanting to do away with benefits and taking away equality from women and hate against any religion that isn't C of E. They really aren't very great advocates for the teachings of Christ, are they?
I hope there are more demonstrations like this.
ReplyDeletePolitics has been deliberately turned into a dry subject to turn off young folk. We need more activism, not less.
Yes, Jutie, politics used to be more interesting, and that's what engaged young people.
DeleteI think the reduction of the voting age has involved a load of people in their future. I'd like to see it be the age for all elections in the future. It is frankly bemusing to me that you can get married, father a child, and yet you cannot vote.
I could do without people being called scum though...on both sides, but I suppose that's not going to happen.
Agree totally with Rolfe and Juteman. The press have successfully presented this as yes v. no when it is obviously and demonstrably a left v. right thing.
ReplyDeleteMeekly accepting this kind of misrepresentation is what will lose us the ref, not the acts themselves.
Absolutely. There are plenty of places in England where left leaning students would be saying much the same thing to Farage and his right wing agenda.
DeleteThey just managed to get nationalism into it, because someone told him to go home... and someone else said they didn't want the UK flag (which he assumes to be the English flag), in their country.
This demonstration was mainly about jobs and immigration and the party's hatred of Jews and Muslims, gays, women, catholics and anything else that isn't a white middle class male...
Although for me, I will never accept a party who proposes the taking away of my parliament, my free health care and my free education, and impose Westminster on me.
Pa....
Deletehttp://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/Education/Universities/Hundreds-protest-at-Le-Pen-visit-20022013.htm
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I would be even happier if you and your doubles just F****** Off and played with yourself because no one else would soil themselves.
DeleteSimple 2+3 or simple 4 symbol captcha would be above the basic intelligence of these cretins. Please remove this post after the above numbskull has been extinguished.
LOL... I think CH, that you can't have a simple captcha on Blogger, but I am going to have to look into it, at least for a couple of weeks.
DeleteI seem to remember at one point Subrosa had a similar problem and put some sort of control on for a few weeks until the interest had dies down.
I hate the idea... but I'll look into it. :)
Lies then and lies now
ReplyDeleteShould make a good read tomorrow, CH.
ReplyDeleteI must say I'm surprised that, in relation to this event, the normally astute Subrosa makes comments like "Having a rent-a-mob on the streets brings the Yes campaign into disrepute" and "Letting fools loose in the name of independence....." in apparent acceptance, advocated by unionists, that this protest has something to do with the Yes campaign or independence.
ReplyDeleteIt was nothing of the kind and suspiciously like a set-up where UKIP hold a press conference in a pub with free public access. It is notable as well that the journalists present did not, as far as I can see, make public the poisonous policies that prompted the protest in the first place.
As I said it was nothing to do with the independence campaign, nothing to do with being anti-English but more to do with those who find his policies abhorrent.
I think, John, that she may have meant that it could be spun that they were a part of the Yes Campaign.
ReplyDeleteThey weren't fools. They were students, quite few of them. Most of the 50 or so people that were there were passers-by who stopped to laugh at the farago...See that...Farage Farago ...clever or what?
They weren't shouting about the English, they shouted about jobs. Not surprisingly given that they will be looking for one in the not too distant future and they are a bit thin on the ground.