That is, more or less, as much of the article as I can read unless I'd like to pay Rupert Murdoch as little as £2 a week for a subscription to the Sunday Times. Not only would I not like to do this, I'd actually prefer gnawing my foot off than giving him 5p, so, as to the rest of the findings, I remain in the dark as they don't yet seem to be available from Panelbase.
However, it is interesting that the lurch to the right, and anti-European policy which is proving to be so very popular with the English, may not be going down so well with Scots. The last poll I saw put support for the Yes campaign at around 33%, so the "neck and neck" quoted above in today's poll is a huge movement in our favour.
I'm dubious about every opinion poll, and independence polls seem to be more volatile than most, so I take it all with a hefty pinch of salt, but if it is anywhere near true, I'd like to thank Mr Farage from the bottom of my heart.
The last poll had 47% of Scots wanting to leave the EU. They might decide that getting out of the EU is more important than getting out of Westminster and so vote against independence. Deciding to opt for the UK referendum on the EU instead.
ReplyDeleteThe MSM constantly tell lies on Scottish Independence yet we are expected to believe them on EU membership, don't think so at this stage in the arguments.
DeleteHere's the latest Harris poll. Says 40% of Scots want out of the EU. I've seen the polls vary between 40 and 50%.
Deletepage 17...
http://www.harrisinteractive.com/vault/HI_UK_News_FT_Poll_17-02-13.pdf
Thanks Monty. As I said, I'm only going by what the Times said... and opinion polls are volatile things. I don't ever really believe them, but they are the best we have for trend indications. Our own contacts are usually too few, and in any case more likely to be likeminded, to be in any way trustworthy.
Delete(Even if I sometimes say "I've never met anyone who ...thought Johann Lamont was a good leader", I do know that that has no validity because people I'm likely to know, aren't likely to think much of old Johann!0
It's a possibility of course, but the latest poll shows not Monty.
ReplyDeletesee table above tris....hey you've introduced that double word thingy to log in...too much spam ?
DeleteYes Monty....Sorry guys... I did introduce the word recognition. The spam was just getting to be too much.
ReplyDeleteIt will go as soon as the spam level falls, I promise. I hate them myself and I hate asking you guys to fill them in.
I don't know anyone who wants Scotland to leave Europe.
ReplyDeleteBruce
Do you mean the EU ? Well you do now Bruce. Me and 40% of Scots who want real independence. Not pretendy 'independence in Europe' with all of our laws governed from Brussels.
DeleteI want to be like beautiful Norway. Free and trading openly with Europe via the EFTA ( Euro free trade area). Their £800Bn oil wealth fund safely invested for the future.
Norway pay a lot of money to access the trade zone. I would prefer to have a say than just pay the money.
DeleteI also think that Scotland historically had more of a partnership approach to Europe that I would prefer to keep but I accept that is not everyones view. I also trust them more than Westminster.
Bruce
Norway does have a say. And then they can ignore what they don't approve of. The new laws governing north sea oil and gas safety and exploration for example.
Deletesee this excellent post for more info...
http://theveiledsun.blogspot.co.uk/2012/12/making-it-up-as-they-go-along-fibs.html
We just have to follow the Lisbon Treaty which is heavily weighted in favour of the banks, big business and more privatisation. Have you never wondered why Labour/ Liberal and Tory policies are roughly the same ? It's because we follow EU rulings now. There are 20 new Bills in the UK parliament for the year ahead and 1300 new pieces of legislation going through Brussels for us to rubber stamp. There's nothing for them to do at Westminster yet they want a 15% pay rise. Chancers.
I know some people who want to come out of Europe, but Scotland, as a trading nation is much more dependent on the EU for sales, than England, which makes much less per capita to export.
DeleteAlthough I think there is a great deal that is wrong with the EU, including the daft parliament in two places, the outrageous cost of MEPs and the bureaucracy, I still believe that we are better in than out.
We trade far more easily with European nations than with America for example, which despite the much vaunted "special relationship" still won't accept British Beef.
Some on the right want us to trade with the English speaking nations, but most of them aren't much interested in trading with us and they are all so incredibly far away.
As for the EU interfereing in British laws: Well, it was the EU that brought in a good deal of the laws that make us safer at work. It's all very well to laugh at 'elf and safety gone mad, but before the EU there was far less in the way of decent safety at work. Likewise, human rights left to the right wing governments in Britain would apply only to the titled and the rich. I'm happy that there are people looking after this who are not steeped tin class divisions and the belief that people like us are a subspecies of themselves.
I read an article a few months ago that looked at the pros and the cons... and it stated that Norway pays a huge amount to the EU to be allowed to join in the trade. Switzerland and Liechtenstein too have a special relationship with the EU, based on the fact that there is a big demand for the high quality products that they make (and that they are very rich and pay handsomely for access.
Personally I think that Eton boy is on a hiding to nothing demanding that Britain be treated specially. I really can't see Hollande or whoever is the next chancellor in Berlin going along with that, and why should they?
How would Brits feel if Italy demanded to be a special case. We'd tell them to bugger off, which is more or less what Italy told the UK to do.
That's a totally personal view, but I've seen some of the great things that EU money has done for Scotland in the past. So I want to be in.
We pay in far more to the EU than we get back so would be able to fund more things outside of the EU. The UK has a £49Bn trade deficit with the EU.
DeleteThey won't stop buying our oil or fish or whiskey etc ( they won't be able to steal our fish anymore...have to pay for it instead) if we're an independent country outside of the EU.
I don't want us to be a special case. Just special and independent of the EU.
They're even debating whether we can use our own food seeds for goodness sake. Making us all buy monsanto aluminium resistant gm seeds instead. I've used my own seed potatoes/ rocket salad etc for decades.
Scottish Independance and being a member of the EU is a joke. The Brussels bureaucrats especially the unelected European Commission are power mad and want to control people's lives from birth to death.
ReplyDeleteAs regards the demonstration against Nigel Farage on Thursday this was an unlawful event as permission to hold the demonstration was not sought from Edinburgh Council.
The High Street was blocked at one point and yet the Police did nothing to clear the demonstrators.Why did they not arrest them?. Questions must be asked of the Police handling of the events that took place. It would seem that mob rule is now the norm in Scotland.
If the demonstration had been against an MSP, would the Police have bundled the MSP into a Police van, i would suggest not, they would have cleared the demonstrators.
Democracy in Scotland is DEAD.
Whit?
DeleteSorry I can't agree with anything you have said. The reaction from UKip and the media has been shameful. To imply that Scottish people are racist was wrong, to imply anti English was wrong, most of the demonstrators were in fact English.
DeleteAs far as democracy is concerned we currently have little of it from the current unfair first past the post system. I would suggest you need a bit more research to inform your opinion rather than a rant based on what appears to be the media, call Kaye and UKip.
Bruce
Aye, as CH said ...whit?
DeleteWere you there? There was no riot.
I thought that people were allowed to barack politicians, whoever they are.
Alex Salmond has had this kind of treatment. He dealt with it by going over to them and talking.
Nigel Farage who isn't even half the politician that Johann Lamont is and god knows that's saying something, couldn't cope and made all sorts of ridiculous accusations which were picked up by Farage's new friends in the extreme right press... and of course the Dirty Digger's papers, Rupert being happy to back anyone as long as they are embarrassing Dave.
The Times Panelbase poll shows that:
ReplyDelete1. If it looked like the Westminster government introduced a referendum on Europe that was likely to see the UK leaving, then the Yes campaign would get a surge in support that would put both Yes and No at neck and neck.
2. Without the question on Europe the latest poll shows the no campaign suffer a further 2% drop to 46% since the last Panelbase poll in March, with the Yes campain remaining steady at 36%.
This results in the Yes campaign only needing a 4% swing to catch the No's.
The Panelbase Pollsters are showing a trend that is Yes catching No, but as some have said on here, depending on the methods the polling companies use, the accuracy of these polls should be taken with a pinch of salt.
The trends tend to show that Yes is gaining slowly but surely though and most experts on poll findings say it's the trends rather than individual poll results that are important.
Thanks Patrick:
DeleteSo, it's all looking good...
And Farage has done us all a favour...
I agree that it is the trend that counts. It will be interesting to see how that goes forward in the light of the new political situation in England. It will be interesting to see what kind of vote farage gets in Donside.
Anon at 4.04 pm.
ReplyDeleteYou are entitled to your views.
And I'm entitled to laugh at you.
It's called democracy.
Laugh away there Conan.
DeleteHold on, I think I'll join in.
:)
Right.
ReplyDeleteSo there are those who'd vote No in 2014 in order to get out of Europe at a later date in a referendum promised by the Tories - if they've got the clout in a new parliament after the next UK General Election?
Forgive me, but this is stupid. You'd happily force your country into a position of abject penury on the off-chance of voting no in a referendum on the EU being 'offered' by a party that has a track record of lying and might not even have a mandate after the next general election (in which your vote will count for the thin end of fuck all anyway?)
Or, you can vote yes in 2014 then come the Scottish General Election where your vote will actually count for something - you can NOT vote SNP and vote Tory or SDA, a full year before the Tories say they'll deliver a euro-ref from Westminster.
I think this Euro argument is a stalking horse for the No crowd. I'm not overly keen on Europe membership but its a political reality, compromise is necessary. Also, after a Yes in Sept 2014, there will be a renegotiation of Scottish (and rUK) membership, I'd much rather have Scotland's hand in that card game than the rUK. I'd also much rather have people holding our cards that actually have Scottish interests at the front of their minds instead of whatever happen to be trendy in the City of London.
Or you can continue to fixate on SNP policy to the detriment of absolutely everything else.
Yes Pa, that more or less nails that!
ReplyDeleteScottish membership will not necessarily be on the same terms as the current UK or the UK new agreement, if Cameron could manage aUK agreement with Europe.
The truth is that Cameron was stupid enough to insult the French president by offering rich French the opportunity to dodge their taxes by living in London. Then he goes to him and says... We want special terms whereby we get the good bits of Europe but don't have to bother with the bad bits (like human rights, equality and health & safety. And Monsieur Hollande is expected to say...Oui...
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