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| What a nice man to have as the head of a political party in Scotland. He clearly thinks even less of us than Mrs Lamont, who says we all want something for nothing. Ms Davidson is no better. She thinks that 75% of us depend on the state for their income, herself included as she seems to have spent very little time in her life working for the private sector, of which she is so fond. God only knows what Willie Whatsit thinks. I doubt anyone much cares. (PS. No 'e' in whinging!) (PPS. Does anyone wear a bowler hat any more?)
The march to the right has started. Cameron has been warned that unless he scraps the equal marriage legislation and works to protect traditional Tory values (you know, the ones we are so fond of in Scotland) his faithful MPs will leave for UKIP.
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Gerald Howarth, a Thatcher worshipper, pictured above (looking like something around him smells bad), who was until 2012 some sort of junior bag carried in the War Office, but was sacked and given a knighthood for having to be replaced (all of this despite very dubious expense claims which he was eventually obliged to pay back), is making waves. He says his constituents are "fed up to the back teeth" with the government (well, who isn't), because they have failed to deliver on their promises. Aye we noticed that too.
So he (the Howarth character), has suggested that Cameron must scrap the equal marriage bill, cut overseas aid, cut even further on immigration, scrap human rights, and return to Tory values.
The muddle headed prime minister who seems to be about as much in charge of his government as I am of the United Nations, has said that he will publish a bill on a referendum for coming out of Europe, although it seems to me more like a neverendum (everyone dissolves into gales of laughter) seeing as it won't happen anytime in the next 3 years...
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| Peter Bone |
He further said that Tories should be allowed to stand as "Conservative and Ukip" candidates if they could win the endorsement of Mr Farage's party.
Mr Farage yesterday raised the spectre of a potential Conservative-Ukip 2015 pact, saying: "If David Cameron gets removed (sic) and somebody else was (sic) put in place who wanted to come and talk to us and say 'Shall we find an accommodation?', we'd consider it. (He's not brilliant with the English language, is he, but then he is French so I suppose he's excused.)
So that's interesting, isn't it? The next government of the UK could be a UKIP/Tory alliance under, say, Michael Gove, Tessy May or Boris Johnson, with a party that considers Scots to be whinging bagpipes waiting for their next fix of English money.
If we didn't heavily subsidise the rest of the UK, it would probably be funny.
Who could possibly want to stay in the UK with this as their potential future?
Who could possibly want to stay in the UK with this as their potential future?
ReplyDeleteDean for one, Caron of the LibDumps as another as they can only think what is best for themselves which was deemed as selfishness in my upbringing but hey what do I know.
Well, I don't want to answer for Dean, but he did express a worry about the equal marriage bill the other day, and now we find that he was right to be concerned... for the English.
DeleteOther right wing narrow mindedness to follow I would think.
As for Caron... No idea. Whatever Nick and whatshisname say, she seems to to be happy with. To each his own!
Cracking post tris.
ReplyDeleteI live in England and have spoken to a lot of people about Ukip. They are definatley here to stay and I have no doubt that they reflect a large percentage of the English population.
The recent vote did not include the Metropolitian areas that tend to have the most problems with imigration, such as where I live near Birmingham.
People are having wages/benefits, cut and they are angry...guess who's getting most of the blame?
We will see further rises in Ukips share of the vote,as they are now exceptable and the voters in England can see that a vote for them gives the government a good kick up the ass,as well as gets them to start talking about things such as imigration.
Vote Yes or get less....much less
Sorry...response at bottom of the page... I forgot to use the answer box...
DeleteDuh...
I see that the Lib Dems are not even mentioned in what the Tory right thinks will be the next Westminster government. Now that they have been sucked dry they can conveniently be spat out and left holding the baby as they disappear down the electoral toilet to the oblivion and fruit cake land previously ruled over by UKIP, and last visited by the Liberals when that nutter who tried to murder his boy friend was in charge! Thanks Nick, footnote in UK history secure there then, now off to the Lords!
ReplyDeleteYip that's about the size of it Tris. I think UKIP could be a game changer for Yes campaign. The recent part of England elections might be forgotten about by Sept. 2014 but luckily we have the rest of England's local elections and the European elections earlier in 2014. UKIP have traditionally down well in those - they were second in overall vote in England last time. Hard to bang on about independent Scotland not being in EU when UKIP and Eurosceptic Tories are having a love in. I don;t believe they would be stupid enough to announce the EU referendum before our one but the writing would be on the wall. People thought I was nutty to moot a UKIP/Tory coalition but even if UKIP don't get MPs in 2015 the Tories will move to the right to capture UKIP voters and the Kippers will thus have dictated policy.
ReplyDeleteFinally I'm way too interested in politics :-)
My initial reaction was that it was a protest vote... after all the Tories are hopeless, Labour is no use as an opposition and the Liberals have given up the right to be a protest party.
DeleteBut from what I'm hearing... reinforced by Patrick above, it seems that things are indeed changing.
England will move to the right; Scotland won't but we will suffer nonetheless.
I reckon they will do very well in the European election (despite their MEPs having a terrible reputation).
Peter Bone is a dinosaur and Lord Monckton I don't think would be able to show his face in the country he purports to represent for UKIP which I think says it all.
ReplyDeleteThe thing about the average UKIP supporter is; at best they probably haven't thought it through properly - at worst, they're the kind of swivel-eyed nutter who believes the wilder ejaculations of UKIP and Express/Mail/Mirror (delete applicable) newspapers
Obviously we have those nutters in Scotland too, but they probably have slightly more hate for the English than they do for any other nationality so still wouldn't vote UKIP.
Personally, I have a fair bit of sympathy for those 'soft' UKIP voters, they don't have a lot of choice if they want to change things in Westminster (although the change may not be for the better.)
The happy coincidence is, a UKIP rise in England will probably mean more attrition for BT and the No side, which I think most here would agree; is a good thing.
(I can't believe there was a time when I wasn't interested in politics - it is as important as it is fascinating.)
(I know, I'm now officially old and past it. Oh well...)
LOL NO you're not... You still don't listen to Radio 4.
DeleteMonckton does look weird, unless of course that is a picture of him 50 years ago.
But they have a history of strange leaders... do you remember that guy Pearson who spoke with an accent that made Brian Sewell sound common.
I don;t blame people looking for something, anything in England, good or bad.
And the tabloids have for a long time been mildly racist without being racist. They hate the EU; the hate immigrants and they've pounded that kind of thing into people's heads over the years.
Now I hear that that old buffoon Lawson, Mrs Thatchers friend, has come out on the side of leaving the union.
It will be interesting to hear the arguments over the next few years before the referendum which I'm sure will come.
I wonder what effect it will have in Scotland.
The MPs like Peter Bone are guilty of wishful thinking.
ReplyDeleteThey may wish that turning the Tories into the UKIP outfit of loons will make them more electable, but this is to totally ignore all facts. As Aldious Huxley once said, the facts don't stop being facts just 'cos they're ignored.
Fact one: Call-me-Dave pulled out to the right on Europe, immigration and it still didn't prevent the UKIP loons popping up.
Why would more of the same, inauthentic 'rightism' from Dave work any better now?
Fact two: Scotland isn't a subsidy junkie (obviously)
Fact three: if you don't think equal marriage is a priority, then you are on the wrong side of history. This is a struggle about civil liberties, and rolling back the bigoted, racist, homophobic 'nostalgic' Christian past. We aren't a Christian society anymore (well, not anyone under 55 like), so why we continue to let what is a minority faith of our grandparents dictate ethics in an enlightenment, egalitarian society is beyond me. Didn't marriage pre-date the rise and decline of this weird Christian outfit anyway? What gives them the right to monopolise ethics, and marital definitions?
I'm not sure it's wishful thinking now Dean.
DeleteThings are changing fast; tonight Lawson has taken up the cudgels and Cameron isn't strong enough to cope.
He's also replaceable...
Murdoch has been seeing UKIP; the Sun even this morning published an article showing how unfair it was that UKIP would have to get 24% of the vote if it wanted to get a single seat in the Commons...
It is interesting that the Better Together campaign refused input from UKIP in their campaign because "they are not a Scottish party" but yet are quite happy to accept dubious donations from individuals outwith Scotland. This would appear to be an acknowledgement, then, that UKIP's policies would not go down well in Scotland?
ReplyDeleteBut then, Butter Together aren't well known for logic (or being able to count to 507)
DeleteBTW, don't miss Scot Goes Pop on the 500 and something questions... Hilarious stuff.
http://scotgoespop.blogspot.co.uk/2013/05/questions-to-which-answer-is-dont-ask.html
Tris,
ReplyDeleteIt seems I have to sign in every time I wish to make a comment. Are you trying to tell me something??!!
Thanks to everyone for a brilliant set of comments. I'll respond later in the day but up to my ears at the moment.
ReplyDeleteJohn... Don't be silly. Your computer is trying to tell you that visiting a tabloid site like this is "infra dig" for it. It's obviously an intellectual snob (as computers have every right to be).
But no, seriously. Nothing to do with my side of things. Must be Blogger. It's temperamental. Maybe you need to clear out your cookies....
:)
Thank you, Patrick.
ReplyDeleteI think there is a tendency for people to turn to the hard right in depressions and really that's what the UK is in and has been for a few years, in all but name. Strangely even "working class" votes go to the hard right... specially because of matters like immigration, and the way that the EU has been painted by the right wing press, a huge number of people see only the bad in it. So if the Sun and the Mail have been doing their job there is a great deal of hatred to be traded on.
UKIP is likely to win many supporters from the Tories and from the BNP (who might see that there are similarities in at least some of their policies), but also from Labour, which doesn't seem to have any direction at all.
But there's no place for them here. So we drift further apart from England. I love the motto "Vote Yes or Get Less".
Munguin: I don't think anyone bothers much now about what the Liberals say.
ReplyDeleteThey had a great opportunity to make a real mark in this coalition and they passed it up. They have kissed ass rather than kicked it.
If David Cameron doesn't pay any attention to what Nick is saying there seems to be no point in the rest of us bothering. They might as well listen to me as listen to Nick.
And I've even forgotten the name of the Scottish Liberal bloke, Willie whatsit.
Tris
ReplyDeleteThe key will be the other council and european elections next year to see if they can keep this going, my suspicion is they will and the tories will shift more to the right and labour will follow a couple of days later. The liberals will more than likely become the who party. I do really believe that England now has it's own national party so they can kill off the BNP. If UKip can keep the BNP members out and play it smart then they turn England into a true 3 party country.
It's gonna be fun either way, esp for Labour members who might have to actually become socialists and join a socialist party, oh well I was thinking oot the box.
Bruce
yes Bruce. I don't know when the other council elections are...I thought they were one a two year cycle, but the European elections will certainly be a teller.
ReplyDeleteI would think that UKIP will do well, allowing that there aren't any cock ups, and they have already started dragging the Tories to the right... Whither goest the Tories, followest the Labour party.
And that's all that really matters.
Labour socialist... Nope, I doubt it. The only hope for that is that they see some sort of niche market gap and try to fill it, by appealing to the poor. But I don't imagine that will happen.
Now Rees Mogg is suggesting that UKIP be given seats in a Conservative government...
ReplyDeleteLast time I looked they hadn't actually won any seats... but why would that matter...?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/conservative/10041349/Reunite-the-right-give-Ukip-jobs-in-a-Conservative-ministry.html
Bring us democracy by voting YES in 2014 as anything else is illogical to any sane persons mind.
ReplyDeleteWell said.
ReplyDeleteIt seems that in their efforts to assuage the tide of of right-wingedness, wee Jacob's nanny must have told him it would be ok to let the nice men from UKIP in to parliament without being elected, because that's the way the aristocracy always do it.
UKIP if you want to...the Scots are not for kipping.
Lollipops, chocolate, ice cream, aaalll freee!
ReplyDeleteWhat about whisky, Conan?
DeleteAw. Missed the child catcher reference from Chitty Chitty Bang Bang :¬(
DeleteOh hell... I'm one of these weird people who's never seen Chitty Chitty Bang Bang, or Mary Poppins, Bedknobs, or Willie Wonka or any of these other childhood things,, so it was sorely missed on me. But I checked up... and he's the spitting image... probably just as unpleasant.
Deletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUnhfvGdmmw
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DeleteTriss
ReplyDeleteTory values are what run the city of london and also created the mess we are all in Together.
Personally my belief is we seeing the ending of the Torys ukip will split there vote and Labour will win at Westminster (well that's how I see it)
The torys don't seem to realise they did not win any election just a cobbled up coalition nobody voted for.
They are reduced to there core vote and that is falling apart. Read an article in the guardian saying Cameron should hold a referendum now and why don't he?
Forgetting all Cameron wants to do is his five year term as primeminister after that he dont give a toss.
That's why it's all being pushed past 2015
The trouble is, Niko, that UKIP could take votes from Labour as well. Indeed, given the huge high that the Tories had in council elections in England last time, and the fact that Labour did well, but not brilliantly, this time, it seems that UKIP has.
DeleteIt's not just the blue rinse, white supremacists of Berkshire villages who have issues that UKIP are addressing (from a position of incredible comfort admittedly...in that they cannot do anything about anything, and therefore cannot fail, as can governments and even oppositions).
I have no doubt that in working class areas immigrants are being blamed for the fact that ethnic white Brits are out of work, in inadequate housing, having to wait for hospital treatments, etc, etc.
It is very easy to persuade people that all their problems are down to:
the unemployed
the sick
the old
single parents
foreigners
or whichever combination you want.
I think you are right that the Tories seem to think that they won the election, and the fact that they didn't against (pardon me for saying it) Brown, who looked like he was rattling down, shows just what a bunch of complete losers they are.
Given 13 years of Labour; economic meltdown and an inept and unpopular prime minister, it should have been like taking cake from a baby. And they couldn't get a majority with a FPTP system....
Camerprat is only in Downing Street because Clegg went along with him, and in so doing reduced his party to rubble.
You could be right that the Tories will split, but I believe that making UKIP respectable has driven all English politics to the right.
We've already heard Red Ed talk about the mistakes of immigration, a refusal to do anything about the cruel and heartless way the sick and unemployed are being treated, and although they have put up arguments against the wholesale privatisation of the English NHS, there are no plans to reverse it, or Bedroom tax, or reduced entitlement to housing benefits.
It could be the right will be split and Labour will crawl through the centre, but even at that, would the right not join in coalition rather than see Red Ed as a leader?
Even if the Queen asked Ed to form a government, if UKIP and the Tories voted against them... what would happen?
We live in interesting times though, particularly when people are suggesting that UKIP, who haven't a single seat in the Commons, should be brought into government...presumably via the house of lords.
What did you make of Ian Smart's comments, backed by McConnell suggesting that Scots are all rabid racists and that a 100 years of the Tories would be better than independence?
Mind you, I suppose the Tories would be very good to the likes of Smart.
Labour Commentators Are Wrong to Pull Independence Debate Ultra-Right
ReplyDeleteStrange how the BBC hasn't 'learned' this news from their usual supplier so it cannot of happened!
BARD 2014
It makes a complete mockery of the licence tax.
DeleteQuoth Her Majesty from the throne: "My government will continue to make the case for Scotland to remain part of the United Kingdom".
ReplyDeleteTaxpayers money being used to undermine democracy must be illegal in International law.
With respect, may it please your majesty ,
ReplyDeleteI would point that your majesty also has a government in Scotland, one which was actually elected by the people of Scotland (as opposed to one that was cobbled together in back rooms by people on the make) which will continue to make the case for an independent Scotland with your majesty as its head of state, as queen of Scots.
Would it be impudent to point out to your majesty that this government is equally entitled to your majesty's support?
I am your majesty's most humble and obedient subject.
Going back to the comments regarding UKIP taking votes from Tories and Labour - the other right-wing parties - it seems to me that both the main parties will be adopting policies to attract, at the general election, those who are currently voting for UKIP. That being the case, in the event of a no vote, I suspect that the obvious target will be the "rebellious Scots".
ReplyDeleteUK disapproves of Scottish devolution. I think they kind of see it as Brits against the world, where the rest of the world are semi savage and Brit are the last standing Christin decent people left.
DeleteIt seems to me that politicians, being politicians, and wanting power more than anything in the world, will do a deal with anyone, saying anything, to get that power.
I seriously doubt that Camertwerp has a long career at the head of the Tory party (although clearly he will go to the Lords and remain in politics as is normal for someone who went to Eton/Oxford and is extremely rich).
But I think he will still be there at the next election, and in the negotiations with UKIP if Scotland's parliament has to be sacrificed, so be it.
As you say though, if the general feeling in England is that UKIP are going to take votes from either or both sides, they will move to adopt the policies of UKIP in order to keep their hands on power.
I've not seen Boris's opinion of UKIP yet...
Incidentally, Niko, why have you stopped blogging - I could do with a laugh!
ReplyDeleteMe too!
Deletet.
ReplyDeleteTris,
ReplyDeleteI don't think people in England have turned to the Far right in these difficult times.
There has been a sense of anger down hear because of the expenses scandal/illegal wars etc, just like we have felt in Scotland, but the English have had no one to turn too. Now they have been turning to Ukip and I am sensing a groundswell of support for them, now that it has become exceptable to vote for them.
There is a palpable fear of Ukip from the other parties.
Although they will try to deny it, this will nudge all the main parties further to the right.
Now that Ukip have a taste of power they will not give it up easily, so will move even further to the right and in my opinion will move into the ground currently held by the Far Right. Believe me, this will be a vote winner down here.
Among my friends and collegues, a lot of Ukips new voters were former Labour voters, so the question for me is, just how far will Labour be prepared to go to the right, to combat Ukip?
I really feel the rise and rise of Ukip will have a significant bearing on the referendum.
Sorry Tris, just to clarify my first line in the above post.
ReplyDeleteI do not think people have 'suddenly' turned to the right...
I feel that a resentment has been building up for years in England against the established parties, but unlike in Scotland the English had no outlet...Ukip have provided this outlet, so it's not just the policies that make Ukip popular, it's the fact that people genuinely despise the traditional parties with all the lies, theft, and coruption that they have witnessed for the past few years.
Yes Patrick, I see completely what you are saying.
ReplyDeleteI agree that there is likely to be a move to the right even from what we might think of as "working class" Labour votes, and probably middle class Labour votes too.
I think we can already see in that Queen's speech that UKIP have had an input (or that part of the Tory party that really is UKIP in nature but not in name).
I read that already some of the immigration measures have been called silly and totally unworkable (meaning they weren't thought through before Cameron made the Queen say them.
Equal marriage has disappeared despite Cameron being absolutely hell bent on getting it through to prove that the Tories weren't a nasty right wing bunch of bigots.
Tough Dave...truth is that they are.
I'm certain that whatever way the South East of England pulls, Labour will go with them.
There are a lot of Labour voters who hate immigration ... after all it's usually THEIR houses and THEIR jobs that are taken by immigrants... or so they think anyway. Many Labour supporters are anti gay rights. Many of them aren't far from a lot of UKIP policies. UKIP are just keeping relatively quiet about the policies that the workers won't much like!
But we know that UKIP hate devolution; the hate the Barnett Formula because they reckon that Scots are getting billions of English taxpayers' money.
I imagine many people in England agree with that. Boris is always on about it...
Interesting times... but for me the prospect of remaining in the Uk gets more and more frightening.
There are going to be no safety nets, or nets so low and so thin that you'll still hit the streets with both your legs broken, if you fall.