This blog supports Scottish Independence. Comments on it, and contents of linked blogs, do not necessarily reflect Munguin's opinions.
What can I say?Well for starters I am very impressed with the repect agenda currently on show by Cameron and his cohorts ... NOT!Labour will, apparently, be vociverous in their fight against FFA for the Scottish Government. In fact they were SO vociverous in their fight against FFA that when it came time to vote on FFA for the Scottish Government Labour ... erm ... sat on their hands and abstained!!!When it comes time for Cameron and his cohorts to deny US our rights under the European Human Rights cause he wants his British Bill of rights thanks to his cohorts the Scottish Government will be denied the right to retain the Eurpean Human Rights but forced, I believe, to work under Cameron's British Bill of rights!!!Yup this respect agenda is sworking out just fine!!!Wonder how those NO voters are feeling now having been duped by the Daily Record and its *ahem* VOW!!!
No respect at all.Nicola was quite right. Of course. Under the current regime, no matter how Ireland, Scotland and Wales vote, they get the government England voted for, and it is a legitimate government.They have every right to do what they did last night.But, it's not sensible, and it's not decent.The British sense of Fair Play was always a figment of people's imaginations though. We should have expected nothing else...and I suspect most of US, did exactly that.
In all fairness Tris I think you are right, most Scots did expect what happened last to happen and were not that surprised last night when it turned outv the way we expected.One thing did stand out last night in my view ... the way the FAMOUS 56 performed. Despite standing almost alone, they did have support from Greens and Plaid Cymru I believe, they fought on through the divisions and did Scotland proud. They did MORE for Scotland last night than any Scottish unionist politician would have done. In fact you need look no further than the behaviour of the Labour party for proof. During the debate Labour, Ian Murray I believe, claimed that they would vociferously fight against FFA for Scotland. So, what did they do when it came to the two votes on FFA last night ...1) vote with the S.N.P. ... don't be silly remember they opperate under the Willie Bain Principle.2) vote against the S.N.P. ... again remember the Willie Bain Principle should come into effect here ... it didn't!3) sit on their earse, do nothing and abstain! ... Correct! go to the top of the class! So much for the Willie Bain Principle and their vociferous fight against FFA then! LOL
The SNP are doing us proud, Arbroath. The unionists are a sorry lot really. A dumb cluck, an incompetent liar and a bloke whose sartorial elegance is second only to Yves St Gummage. If they had another brain cell between them they could join together and be a cabbage.
They signed the Unions death warrant, last night. All the lies they peddled, to get a NO vote, are now exposed as thus. They can no longer defend the union, Scotland and the Scots are being treated as second class.On the day they celebrated their magna carts, with it's freedoms (for the rich and powerful), they voted against freedoms for the Scottish parliament.The union is dead, time to bury it, the stench is palpable.
Yes, I'm inclined to agree.To be honest I believed before that the union was on it's last legs and that within the next 20 years it would fall apart.Now I doubt it will take that long.It has to be said, of course that the Magna Carta was another example of Fair Play gone wrong.King John may have signed it, but, in typical style, he didn't believe that a royal's promise to mere aristos meant anything at all, so largely, he ignored it. Clearly he was similar in many ways, if slightly more elevated, to Cameron.I recall an AA Milne poem...King John was not a good manHe had his little waysAnd sometimes no one talked to him For days and days and days...
I sat and watched some of the debate/divisions last night and could not help but think "aye ... wee Gordie Brown must be thinking to himself I did Scotland proud with that promise of near Federalism didn't I" ... earsehole!
LOL yeah, he should be proud...Seriously, you wonder what he thinks...if he thinks
Did we really expect anything else?
No.Mind if I were Brown and Darling, I'd be hoping for an after dinner speaking tour in Bolivia or Paraguay right now.... then again, I have shame. They don't.
Do you hear the people sing?Singing the song of angry men?It is the music of the peopleWho will not be slaves again!When the beating of your heartEchoes the beating of the drumsThere is a life about to startWhen tomorrow comes.Combeferre:Will you join in our crusade?Who will be strong and stand with me?Beyond the barricadeIs there a world you long to see?Courfeyrac:Then join in the fightThat will give you the right to be free!Read more: Les Miserables -
Aux barricades, Drewsword, aux barricades.We have much to learn from our auld alliance partners.They really are taking the mick out of us,.... and they have the nerve to do it courtesy of a joke of a Scottish Secretary, a Tory peer, and a lying old failure of a Liberal Democrat and some dick who wears a union jack jacket... Sheesh...
Well only those who actually believed that crock as was published in the Daily Whatsit will be surprised. I sometimes wonder how many people voted against on the strength of it. How many times are the Scots to be duped, doesn't everyone know you have to ask for a shilling in order to get sixpence so capitulating on the indie Ref was pretty damned stupid.
People are saying that the union came to an end last night when they went back on the most fundamental first statement of their idiotic vow.If Gordon Brown ...or Alistair Darling, were anything like decent men they would be kicking up hell now.But of course, we've heard nothing from the two of them...doubtless too busy making money.
Oh Well snp whingers56 snp MPs dancing on a thistle what did they achieve feck allthey have as much power as dead gnat.they can huf and puff as much as they likethey wont blow down this Union.......If you lot want to be honest to your so called beliefs then you should do as sinn fein do and boycott westminster .you lot only give Westminster validation when you take partin the westminster pantomine .
Sinn Fein only boycott Westminster because they have to take a vow to the queen and prince of Wales. They don't believe in all that rubbish. Some SNP are royalists and do believe in it.Sinn Fein achieve nothing by staying away. Tony Benn and people like him were repulsed by monarchy, but did the old trick of crossing their fingers behind their backs in order (supposedly) to nullify the vow. I bet Dennis still does it, although now most Labour are believers in the HoL and the monarchy.Who you think would be a good leader in England, and in Scotland, Niko?Jeremy? Ken?
trisMe I would be a brilliant leader of course you and the other denizensof the republic would be cast in to the dungeons of gloom.Your explanation ?? on the snp at Westminster is mere dissembling but does show why you nats are on the losing side of history.
Niko, you can only do what oyu can do. If Cameron were somewhere near decent or a democrat he would see that when one party has 56 of the 59 seats available to them, then he really has to listen to them at least in the country from where they come.But of course Cameron is not a democrat, and he's not a decent man, or he'd not be demanding money back from people who are dead, be they troops or lads who just couldn't take any more of the DWP. I'm not sure you would say they are on the losing side. Labour with it's 1 MP and the Liberals with thier one liar look more like that to me.As for the Tories, they have a walking bag of flour.So... it's move over Iain Gray, Niko for leader? And it's move over Harriet, Niko gonna lead in England too?I guess that when you take over I can look forward to being beheaded for treasonous republican teachings?
Actually Nico, the SNP MPs are there to reflect the oft mentioned settled will of the Scots. By Westminster not taking into account any and all SNP amendments etc, they are in fact going against the afore mentioned settled will of the Scots, thereby breaching article 19 of the acts of union, in effect dissolving said union.The unionists huff and puff and it is they who will end the union, the big bad wolf of their superiority complex, will bring the house of straw down.
I thought the vow was a pile of mince, but I don't think too many people were swung by it. For too many years politicians of all sorts have made promises and then failed to deliver. To say that all those No voters were taken in by it is a bit insulting. I rather think they saw it for what it was, and the majority of No voters made their decision for other reasons (some reasonable, some weird).Arbroath - Cameron might get shafted by members of his own party on the proposed abolition of the Human Rights Act, unless he comes come out with some solid piece of legislation (erm, not). I think the proposed legislation is too much for even some of the Tories to stomach. And it was a bloody cheek to hijack the anniversary of the Magna Carta to push some political bollocks.
Ashcroft did a poll just after the referendum which showed a sizeable number of people had changed their minds...indeed it would have been, if Ashcroft was right...enough to swing it the other way.But whether that impresses or not, probably depends on your attitude to polling.... and I guess to Mr Ashcroft.
Oh I do hope so Annon.I can't believe Cameron or any of his motor morons will be able to come up with anything to appease the back benchers who like the majority of us are sickened by this attack on our Human Rights.I agree about Cameron hijacking the Magna Carta with his political gartbage. Still to be honest can any of us really say we are not totally surprised his his ignorance?
Well, Arbroath, he could persuade a lot of them by dangling junior ministerial jobs in their faces... might or might not work.There are a Ks too...
TrisDidn't get the chance to watch any of the debate at but not surprised with what I have read took place. Right now Cameron has his majority and the backing of the unionist parties in parliament and as long as England has a built in majority nothing will change. I do agree with you that independence is coming unless we see drastic change in the constitution and I would also agree that it will probably be within 20 years but possibly half of that. I do however suspect that if we get to the stage where say 70 per cent back independence you will find a referendum that has federalism on the ballot paper and enough might just go for that. But in time being we are just going to have to accept our lot and continue to argue for change. What might change things will be the EU vote, I think Cameron is taking a huge gamble as I just don't think he has got his sums right. He may think the majority in England want to stay in but I don't agree and once the right wing nutters in the press get going he is in trouble. A no vote will change things in Scotland and I also think any serious disturbances on the streets as we get dragged back to Victorian conditions may be enough to tip the Tories over the edge. But what last night demonstrated to the Scottish voters clearly is that their vote just does not count. I think the unionists made a huge mistake yesterday I really do. Bruce
I agree Bruce. The right of his party have scented blood. They want Britain to stand alone, because they genuinely believe that they are big and important.I think that Merkel will try to keep britain in, but Cameron will not, I fear, get what he wants on movement of Labour. And that's what his right wing nutters won;t take. They HATE foreigners unless they are Americans.Yes, last night said...we promised you stuff; Gordon Brown promised you stuff and promised to guarantee it.But you gave us all the power, by voting to stay subsidiary to us. So get stuffed you haggis munching heathens You're getting sod all.
Well Bruce I realise that the Liberals have been banging on about Federalism for a Century now but it is no more likely now than it was then. England has to be the BIG BOY, why do you think they want out of Europe. It is more to do with their arrogance and that THEY rule the world than anything else. You surely see what happened when Nicola offered to assist Labour in England, they all rushed to the Tories. No Bruce they will never accept federalism and I would say to Scotland you cannot trust them so you cannot either.
HelenaLabour have no idea what they stand for anymore and are a shambles of a party. The Conservatives are just being the Conservatives we know them to be now that they have free reign and I really hope that the conversation that the Liberal Party is having will result in change. If it doesn't then the party will die in Scotland I don't doubt that.Bruce
Labour stands for...erm...Labour. They just wont accept that politics changes, people change, economies change, and the needs change.England and Scotland have grown apart at a time when it is so much easier for comparisons to be made. People have any number of sources of information, written and visual in their hands.And the referendum campaign has politicised people more than ever before. Politicians hate that, even if they say they welcome it.Labour must change. It cannot be all things to all people.The Tories are safe. England, or at least the bulk of it, seems to want to vote Tory, at least under the FPTP system. Labour must compete with them on the terms appropriate to that country.Aping Tories was never going to work in Scotland. Even my granny's cat could have told them that...and she doesn't have one.
Of course,had Broon still been in parliament he would have ensured that the vow was fully enacted.Right!
Course he would.Then he would have recited the Owl and the Pussycat for us... How jolly...I thought elder statesmen were supposed to have influence? Specially when they were used by ba' heids like Cameron.
Since Cameron and Co. have decided on English Votes for Scottish Laws, can we petition the Queen through the Privy Council to decree the permanence and sovereignty of the Scottish Parliament, and so bypass the democratic farce that is the Westminster Houses of Parliament?
See my comment above, they cannot overrule the will of the Scots.
In theory, I imagine we can. Remembering that the Scottish queen reigns by the grace of the people of Scotland, whereas the English queen reigns by the grace of god.I doubt anyone would pay attention though. The constitution is fluid enough to be decided by the attorney general on orders from Downing Street.
Well there's a birthday gift for me. The union literally took its last breath. Death rattle no more. The next Indyref is when we nail the coffin shut.p/s: I sent something via email.
Happy birthday, AH.. Munguin sends you a hug.Just read your email, and I'm thrilled with your article... Emailed you back.And yes. The more they treat us like they won and have nothing to fear (as they did in the late 70s), the more they destroy themselves.