They were probably sectarian in origin, inspired by the exile of the Shi'ite deputy first minister to the Kurdish north of the country, and were exploded as the last Americans left Iraq.
I join with Mr Hague in condemning the killings.
I did not, however, join with Mr Hague and his party when they stood four-square behind Tony Blair and George Bush in their determination to beat Hans Blix to the starting line by bombing the hell out of the country, in the name of some mystical weapons of mass destruction, which the Americas just absolutely KNEW were there, and they had photographs to prove it. The British secret service too, had incontrovertible evidence of their existence, based on a ten year old PhD thesis written by an Iraqi dissident.
Needless to say, the photographs were as reliable as the thesis, because in the intervening 8 years, although hundreds of thousands of people have died, innumerable have been maimed and injured, homes and businesses lost, millions spent, and a massive step back has been taken in human rights, particularly for women, not a single weapon or trace of a weapon has been found.
George DubYa Bush has retired to a job more suited to his doubtless talents (chopping down trees on his extensive Texas ranch), and Antony Linton Blair has turned into a money making machine caring not what he does to make a buck. To cover for his iniquitousness he has apparently become some sort of Christian (although a bloody funny sort of Christian it seems to me).
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| Two not very wise monkeys. |
I imagine that Saddam had simply become an irritation to the West, that is to say Bushair (a sort of amalgam of Bush and Blair, with our man hanging out from behind DubYa).
So back to Mr Hague.
Democracy is a grand system of government, and dictatorship is not. But not one size fits all in this world, and depending on the country you have to rule, sometimes you need to do what you need to do. Sometimes there is no other way to rule. Democracy hasn't really worked that well in Iraq, has it?
Try to think of this the next time the opportunity to through Britain's weight around arises.
Unless you REALLY know how to fix something, even if it's broke, don't try.
Ha ha I see you think we wanted democracy in Iraq tris.
ReplyDeleteChaos is fine. Unstable backward thinking Islamic countries in the middle east and north Africa pose no threat to the West and are easily corrupted, provide us with cheap oil and will never move forward technoligically. Islam forbids advances in science etc. Perfect.
Oh and they give us a good staging post for security free excursions elsewhere in the area.
See.. KSA, Bahrain, Jordan, Qatar, Kuwait,Afghanistan, Tunisia, Egypt, Uzbekhistan et al.
Every right thinking human being on earth knew this was a grab for the oil reserves and had nothing to do with WMDs or even democracy. Bush, and his father, were/are oil men and, I don't what it is about Texans who want take control of the country by hook or by crook [LB Johnson's coup d'tat after the assassination of JFK], Bush Jnr ensuring his brother 'took' Florida to enable him to become president which just goes to show that these men are ruthless.
ReplyDeleteI have always imagined that if you want to take over a country that you don't like then the best way is to have a 'pincer' movement; I am talking about Iran. The Americans are in Afghanistan and used to be next door in Iraq. The Americans could have hit them from the east and west at the same time. I think Obama stopped this. Only time will tell if he was right or wrong.
No Monty. I knew from day one that there would be no democracy in Iraq.
ReplyDeleteDemocracy is like Communism. It can't really exist because human nature doesn't allow it to exist.
Giving everyone a real, rather than cosmetic, say in running the country is impossible and "to each according to his needs; from each according to his ability" sounds wonderful, but is, of course, a pie in the sky dream.
To each according to their ability to grab; from each according to how much they are able to hide in offshore accounts!
Anyway, I ramble. But no, I didn't expect it. I just wish that people like Hague, who along with the then leader, Something of the Night Howard, was frothing at the mouth for showing Johnny Foreigner who was boss would learn from this.
Despite the fact that Saddam had promised that he had destroyed the WMDs that we sold him, in we went killing indiscriminately for no reason, with no international approval. Shock and Awe caused tens of thousands of deaths and blew arms and legs of babies and children.
And still we wonder why the Islamic world hates us. Imagine one of their countries, with no international backing did this to London?
What I could never understand was, as the Iraq government was forewarned of the attack, and as, in theory, all we wanted was Saddam and his family and close advisors, how come Bramerica was stupid enough to bomb Baghdad? He was bound to be sitting there waiting for it!
I'm not expert enough to know how corrupt the Bush regime was Gedguy (although I know someone who is...Danny?)
ReplyDeleteIt does look like a set up. When power moves from father to son (Syria, North Korea, America albeit with a democrat between them) it always seems corrupt to me.
Specially if the son is as dumb as a stump.
Mind you, the shift from Blair to brown was corrupt to. No election, either in the country, or the party. Just Brown getting his way after all these years.
But yes, oil and strategic positioning. WMDs... nah, even Bush wasn't that stupid. They didn't believe the photoshopped pictures or the kiddies PhD thesis, with the rubbed out professorial comments!
Tris,
ReplyDelete"Democracy is like Communism. It can't really exist because human nature doesn't allow it to exist."
You are so right.
Thanks Gedguy. Not often that happens!!!
ReplyDeleteTris,
ReplyDeleteIt's the only Xmas present you'll get off me.
Looking at what happened in the USA from a historical viewpoint it's quite interesting. [If you haven't seen the movie: 'JFK' then I would recommend it as the writer managed to pull together a lot of loose string.] What happened in the USA was a right-wing coup d'tat which could only have happened if JFK was 'out of the way'.
However, if you put that in the context of the time and the height of the 'cold war', you have to wonder just how much the west [mostly in Europe] was used as a pawn in the great game between the USA and the USSR. France seemed to be the only one who told both of them to go and take a running jump, but they had their own reasons for doing that. [De Gaulle never forgave the 3 leaders after being refused a seat at the Yalta conference] When you add the coup d'tat in the UK you either see a right wing take over of the west or we see the west fighting back against the communists; I suspect it may be a combination of the two.
Anyway, it was a fascinating time to live through especially when we didn't know if, one day, we were all going to be nuked.
Democracy tris?...since when did we have a 'democracy' here, or the Americans over there...our so caled democracy is a farce and always has been, the lapdog of the monarchy through the controlling power of the 'Crown' in the CofL. FPTP and a mandate on less than (being generous) a third of the available vote, plus 3 line whips to keep the party line in place...Democracy...don't make me laugh, never having had one how the hell can any of our so called politicians go anywhere and teach anyone what they need to know to attain 'Democracy'...to them (the politicians) DEMOCRACY IS THE BIGGEST STICK! then do what we tell you...
ReplyDeleteYes, I've said that many time. You might add in the House of Aristos, bishops and placemen and nearly dead old politicians.
ReplyDeleteAnd of course there is the fact that Scotland is being run (from Westminster) by people that very few of us voted for and most of us dislike intensely. plus the European Union which has a parliament, much more fairly elected than Westminster, but, at the same time not very powerful.
It is our prime Minister, and that of other states who appoints the really important people. So, it's a bit like the house of lords.
No democracy here, or precious little.
Still I'm grateful for the fact that I can say that I hate David Cameron and all he stands for, without fear that I will; be tortured till I say he's lovely and clever and perfect in every way.
Therein lies the spirit of the true revolutionary...hold onto that thought and treasure it...for the time is I believe not too far off where we will be coerced into saying exactly those things...though I doubt we will have to say them about Camergoon which is some relief!
ReplyDeleteI doubt if it was regime change they wanted in Iraq tris. The next leader is just the same as the last and will be our pal or not depending on Western strategic interests - Syria and Bahrain free to murder as many as they want at the moment etc.
ReplyDeleteIt was the destruction of Iraq that was required and that's what was done. Libya was regime change though rather than total destruction of government and essential infrastructure.
Do you think the hasty retreat from Iraq by the US signals a shooting match between Israel and Iran ? The US troops would have gotten in the way being piggy in the middle in Iraq and were the only hindrance to the next stage of the perpetual war.
Not impossible Monty.
ReplyDeleteYou never know with superpowers or the UK.
Whatever is going on, I hope the idiot Cameron has the good sense to avoid involvement, even if it would win him brownie points with Mr Obama.
I do remember Cameron saying that the reason we had to intervene in Libya was that we couldn't allow a dictator to kill his own people, yet nothing has been done about Syria, where a dictator is killing his own people, and Cameron played host a couple of weeks ago to His Majesty King Hamad bin Isa Al Khalifa...that was the one who is a dictator and who was killing his own people, with the help of Saudi Arabia, only a few months ago.
Hypocrite.
US out of Iraq nothing to stop Israel attacking Iran now at their leisure.
ReplyDeleteWell, nothing except America CH. I doubt that Obama wants another war now that he's just got out of Iraq and fulfilled a pledge.
ReplyDeleteOf course, he doesn't like their odious PM (who does?) but it's not up to him, even if it's up to him. Especially at this time of election year...
Very complex.
His advantage is that the Republicans will have to come out in favour of supporting Israel; the 'ordinary' people won't be overly keen on another war, even if the moneymen are.
Still nothing will stop Nyetty if that is what he wants to do...
yeah must be something wrong with Democracy when it leads to a xenophobic tyrannical dictator such as Alex salmond being allowed to walk the streets of a Nation.
ReplyDeleteElected by 15% of the people.
Yes Niko. You're right. Now, you stay warm, take the tablets that that nice doctor gave you, and don't go out until the fever abates...
ReplyDeleteThen we'll get you sectioned!!!!
:)
OOH like William Wallace and can I have a bone for the dog please.
ReplyDeleteHappy hols to all.
Happy Hols to you CH....
ReplyDeleteI said at the time, given the full facts, that I supported the war in Iraq.
ReplyDeleteIt would be wrong for me to backtrack like some pathetic Claire Short. So I remain, it was right, logical and legal.
The proof will be in the pudding.
Hmmm. The pudding's not looking too terribly tasty right now, Dean.
ReplyDeleteI think, by the way, that you would never be in the least like Claire Short!!! :)
Saving the best until last
ReplyDeleteMerry Xmas to all on here and beyond.
p.s. the Onionists
Hey Wolfie... Same to you... :)
ReplyDelete