Saturday, 22 September 2012



  1. I burst out laughing when I got to the last picture. Brilliant.

  2. Is this a spot the difference competition?

    A lot of hot air in the last one.

  3. Och, what a set of bright sparks you lot are...

    Fancy being that sober on a Saturday night that you could not only work out the puzzle, but make funnies about it.

    Deeply disappointed in you! (Specially you Pa!)

  4. Good panoramic view CH. isn't Edinburgh the most amazing place!

  5. John Gibson,...hello and welcome, and I'm glad we made you laugh! :)

  6. Yeah Marcia, there were around about 9,490 differences, but I'll accept the hot air answer.

    You won't like the prize though....

  7. Best we don't let Murdo Fraser see these pics Tris. After all by all accounts he can only count to a few hundred.

    Just thinking Tris. Do you think it was Murdo who was doing the head count for the BBC?

  8. He's a bit foolish, Arbroath. He should try to refrain from making cheap remarks like that. They have a habit of biting one on the butt!

    Of course we all do, to a certain extent, but when I do, hardly anyone hears or sees them. When he does...

    ...nah, on reflection, he's probably much the same.

    Yes, I think he did the count. He's not much use for anything else since he folded his tent on reforming the right of the political spectrum in Scotland.

    Busted flush, or a flushed bust: one of these!

  9. Here's the No campaign group:

    Unappealing bunch, but at least a third of them were prepared to show their faces...erm face

  10. At least they showed up long enough to get arrested by some of Edinburgh and Lothians finest.

    Here's their boss, or is it Niko hiding behind the trees.

    Right that's enough of the sad face of the day. Now for the fun part ofv the day.

    Just hope THIS post makes it through the defences up to your board Tris!

  11. Ha ha, The sad balloons standing in front of RBS. A zombie bank that will never pay off it's debts. Like the bankrupt UK govt and their £1trillion debt and monthly deficit of £14Bn . Gordon got half of 'no more boom and bust' right I suppose. By the way where is he ? Been awol from 'the big hoose' (apart from claiming exes) for over 2 years now. Poor old sarah Beard with him hinging aroond. Oh where's Labour's knight of the relum Fred the shred these days as well ?

  12. yep! but the balloons have it

    5000 or 10000 is a reasonable crowd for smallish football club.

    did you not see the Barcelona march 1 million plus out of 7,535,251 population

    snp managed ONLY 9500 out of 5,254,800 population and they were mostly snp members under orders.

    not a very convincing example of ALL the Scottish people yearning for independence.

    more a nice day out for the snp

    you can get the pic of a few loyal unionists(your fellow scots) and take the piss spit out of them the shower them with Nat bile and hate by the bucket load.

    which you lot are most happy doing.

    Not sure though how after you pissed on spat on humiliated and put in fear of what may happen to them and their Familys in a snp ruled Independent Scotland.

    how you get them to vote for Independence as you sure as hell havent got the votes so far

  13. MSP Margo MacDonald, who urged the crowd to persuade others by engaging with them sympathetically.

  14. the mass rally for independence in the Spanish region of Catalonia last week, where 1.5m Catalans, or 20% of the population, took to the streets, yesterday's event drew less than 0.1% of Scotland's population, despite a rare afternoon of glorious sunshine.

  15. – accompanied by former MSP and convicted perjurer Tommy Sheridan – and the Labour splinter movement, Labour for Independence.

    Good old Scotsman............blacken Tommy and downgrade the Labour Independence supporters to a itty bitty splinter.

  16. abi dearest

    you are right the slap head does indeed look like me ugly bastard an all

  17. The comments are right. It's the last picture. And it's about the balloons. The unionists had only 19 balloons. The SNP had none at all.

    Once again, America must show you the way. The balloon drop tradition at our political conventions goes back more than half a century, to the GOP convention of 1956 which nominated Dwight D. Eisenhower. A poor balloon drop at a Convention means a poor campaign. Jimmy Carter got a poor balloon drop at the Democratic convention in New York City in 1980 and it ushered in the Reagan era. John Kerry got a bad balloon drop in Boston in 2004, and DubYa secured a second term.

    Here is the famous clip of the director of the 2004 Democratic convention yelling into a live microphone : "GO BALLOONS." "STANDBY CONFETTI" "GO BALLOONS" "NEED MORE BALLOONS" "SEND ALL THE BALLOONS" "DAMMIT, WE NEED MORE BALLOONS" "WHAT THE F YOU GUYS DOING?" "I NEED MORE BALLOONS"

    The Republicans dropped 120,000 balloons at Tampa this year. Sadly, the Democrats had no balloon drop at their Convention due to a change of venue for the last night's festivities. This has probably doomed the Obama presidency.

    It's one thing to be on the right side of the issues. But politics is mostly about balloons. You need balloons! You need LOTS of balloons! About 100,000 is the bare minimum. And you are now using somewhere between none and 19. GEEEZE!!!

    If you don't get serious about balloons I can't be responsible.

  18. HERE'S is the way it's done. Here's the GOP balloon drop at Tampa this year. A total of 120,000 balloons, expertly dropped. One thing I can say for Republicans, they sure do know their balloons and how to drop them.

    1. Wow someone has really went for the creme de la creme of baloon droppers for that vid, makes you wonder where you would dig up professional balloon droppers of that calibre.

  19. I'm going to revise my estimate on attendance up slightly for two reasons, the panoramic shot shows the extent of the crowd up the back and to the sides.

    Also, if you look on google earth at the Ross Theatre, you can easily see how the seating works and from where people where on the day how extensive the crowd was.

    I'm sticking my pound coin on 6500, do I win the sweepstake?

    Just seen on the Sunday Politics, on the strength of a banner being carried which said 'Independence Now' the BBC tried to pin Salmond down about actually having it now.

    That kind of journalism makes my blog look factual and incisive.

  20. Excellent picture Arbroath. Well done Key Board Warrior. Nice commentary.

    Are you still having trouble posting, Arbroath?

  21. Hi Monty: Mr Brown is a elder statesman of North Britain, and South Britain. He has no truck with the likes of Houses and petty politics. He has books to write and sell. I wonder if he will take a Lordship when parliament stands down.

    I see his good friend JK Rowling has said that she will never vote for an independent Scotland. Sad.

    As for (Sir) Fred; I don't know whether he took over from Max Mosely at formula one. I also don't know if his tastes run to being spanked by concentration camp guards in Nazi uniforms...

    I wonder if that was something he picked up from his dad.

  22. Well, you see Niko, Your NO campaign promised us a blitz of people to support the union on one weekend in August, when the sun was also shining and it was a lot warmer than it was yesterday. And instead of asking them to travel from all over Scotland, it even held the even in the high streets of small town Scotland. And still no one except the organisers turned up.

    I remember seeing Old Spud in one photograph and in the next he had gone off to another event so he could be counted twice.

    Of course, it's also true that there was almost no publicity for this march, except on Facebook. So, if you are not part of the Facebook generation, you probably wouldn't have known about it.

    I checked with people in my building and I was the only one who knew about it, out of 14.

    With their own state broadcaster, the Catalonians actually have a chance of finding out what is happening in their own "region", whereas I know more about what happens in London, England than I do in Edinburgh, Scotland.

  23. Yes Anon, but it is a Catalonian tradition to take to the street at the drop of a hat. I quote from some literature about Barcelona:

    "At times life in Barcelona can seem like one long fiesta, especially during summer when every barrio in the city celebrates its own patron saint days and a Bacchanalic carnival vibe takes over the entire town one district at a time."

    On the other hand, Scots tend not to bother too much about these things... even, as I pointed out above, if they know about them.

    Remember that although the Queen is quite popular in Scotland, the street parties to celebrate her reign could be counted on the fingers of your hands, whereas there were thousands and thousands in England.

  24. Yes, that was a little unwise of the Scotsman, Niko. I suspect that Tommy might be on the brink of proving that Mr Cameron's friend, Coulson, lied in evidence about him, and that he was wrongly convicted.

    As for the Labour splinter group, it's quite substantial, I think.

    But hey, I'd hate to tell the Hootsman how to run a newspaper. They are doing such a good job of racing to extinction.

  25. Ha ha ha Danny.

    So, what your saying is that America has more balloons than Scotland and if we don't wise up balloon wise (if you get my meaning), we are sunk....?


    Mind I think you might have refrained from mentioning that in Niko's presence. The next thing is he will be rounding up all the balloons in Edinburgh to support his wretched union.

  26. I see that the Republicans certainly have more balloons than the Democrats, Danny, which could explain a lot!

  27. I'm very very bad at judging numbers, Pa, so I'll pass.

    You can guarantee that the NO campaign will try to make it look like there were as few as is credible, and the YES will be rounding up for all they are worth.

    It was a fair turn out in a nation that doesn't do street stuff. I can't remember anything bigger.

    I have dim and vague memories of poll tax marches in Scotland, which seemed, for all its unpopularity, to consist of no more than a few hundred people at most. Maybe I'm wrong about that; it was a long time ago.

    As for the Independence Now Banner: is there no one at the BBC with any sense. That's pathetic journalism. We've rehearsed this argument since "Bring It On".

    You have to get legislation through parliament. Not just the notion of a referendum, the actual legislation, which must have all the 'i's' and 'j's' dotted and the 't's' crossed.

    It would be impossible to do that in much less than a year, (and despite what Mrs Lamont says, the government has more important legislation to get through).

    I'm sure that the opposition parties wouldn't want sloppy legislation.

    The BBC knows that, but they play down to the lowest denominator of their audience.

    They are pathetic and I resent having to pay for them and the inflated salaries they pay their third rate staff.

  28. snp managed ONLY 9500 out of 5,254,800 population and they were mostly snp members under orders.

    Is this so Niko, and you would know that the march and rally was an S.N.P. organised rally how exactly?

    ANYONE who knows ANYTHING about yesterday's march and rally knows that it was organised by a guy called JEFF DUNCAN, someone who as far as I know has NO connection to the hierarchy of the S.N.P. Therefore Niko as far as your "claim" is concerned you are 100% WRONG!

    Further more the march and rally achieved around the 10,000 figure WITHOUT any mass advertising campaign.

    Oh by the way Niko, what's happened to the "save the union" marches?
    They seem to be non existent. What's wrong, the 45,000 "supporters" of the union can't get coaches to bring them up from South East England?
    Are they worried about having to show their passports at the border before being allowed to attend their rally in Glasgow?

    I don't know if I'm still having problems Tris, we'll see with this post. :D

    If you wanted an idea of numbers at the march and rally yesterday Tris, check out these photos from Rev. Stu's site.

    Here is a photo of the Ross Theatre without anyone there.

    Here's a photo taken from yesterday's rally at the Ross Theatre.

    Far be it for me to question anyone, but in my view this picture proves that there were at least 10,000 people there.

  29. 5000 0r 10000 20000 if you like compared to the Catalan turn out it was pants

  30. They are all the same if they all support Nazi NATO.

    - Aangirfan

  31. Tris, I was going to reply to the nonsense from Anon about numbers but then I remembered reading this over on Rev. Stu's site. It is a post by R.L. who puts the "argument" for doing ANY comparison between yesterday's march and that in Catalunya to bed.

    This business of comparing with Catalunya, is absurd on many levels. Here are just a few notes, taken from my own limited understanding of the situation.

    Under General Franco, the fascist dictator who ruled Spain (part funded by the USA) with an iron fist until his death in 1975, the people of Catalunya suffered very hash treatment. Their language and culture was effectively suppressed. There are many in Catalunya who lived through Franco, so the suppression of Catalan language and culture is a very, very raw subject, even now. Madrid rule is equally contentious.

    The new right wing Spanish Government which replaced the Government of Zapatero, have, I have been told, discussed steps to modify some of the autonomy Catalunya has, and also to limit or change the increase in use of Catalan as the first language.

    Several independence referenda in Catalunya have given resounding yes results, but have been dismissed by the courts in Madrid as being ‘unconstitutional’.

    In Spain right now, there are endless suggestions of corruption within the new Government, and the people of Spain, not just Catalunya, are angry as hell about the austerity cuts being imposed via the right wing administration. Almost every weekend there are massive demonstrations in Madrid and elsewhere in Spain against the cuts. Of course, unless you search very hard, you will find little in the MSM here to tell you of the running battles in puerta Sol, involving riot police and demonstrators. Protesting in Spain is the new national sport.

    In Catalunya, there is a general feeling, backed up by hard facts, that Catalunya is producing more money than the central Madrid Government is allowing them back. This coupled with totally clumsy changes to money distribution has made the Catalans angry. Catalunya is a wealthy part of Spain, and can see no good reason why they should be held back by Madrid. In a time of austerity and a hugely unpopular Madrid Government, such an argument is even more compelling.

    So, you see, Catalunya, is literally a powderkeg of resentment against Madrid right now, with feeling inflamed by a clumsy unpopular right wing Madrid Government who give little thought to other regions, who appear to be sucking lots of money from Catalunya to Madrid, and have generally shown a complete disregard for the people of Catalunya. The only surprising thing about the numbers at the recent march in Barcelona, was that there weren’t more at it. The people there are seriously angry.

    So, getting back to Scotland, for any person to try to draw comparisons with the numbers at the march in Edinburgh today, and the recent events in Catalunya, requires extremely high levels of ignorance and stupidity regarding Spanish current affairs. To suggest the situations are similar, is beyond daft, and betrays the rank ignorance of those making such comparisons.

    It’s just the kind of thing a unionist might do.

    Having been at the march in Edinburgh today, the point I would make regarding numbers, is this. I saw people joining the march part way through, so the numbers increased, and I also know personally, that many people who did not make the march actually turned up in the gardens to hear the talks etc.. I’d put the numbers as closer to 8,000 or 9,000, from what I saw. Do not let the unionists p*ss on your parade, this was a quite fantastic march, with a superb turnout.

    Vote Yes in 2014.

  32. There were a few folk on the march doing a chant, "What do we want? - Independence! - When do we want it? - Now!" Others were trying to shush them, saying the media would only use it to claim marchers were demanding the referendum be run immediately.

    When we got to the rally, Salmond showed us how to do it.

    "What do we want? - Independence! - How'r'we gonna vote? - YES!!"

    Now we know.

  33. Just read a comment on my partner's Facebook page.

    There was someone at Greyfriars yesterday during the march with a clicker, they "clicked" 11,984 marchers. Not everyone was able to do the march plus others who knew nothing about the march joined in the rally. This would, in my view push the "estimated" figures up to around the 12,500 or higher.

  34. @ Alex mci,
    Yes, the balloon drop has become an iconic part of American political conventions. The same man has planned and supervised the balloon drop of every Republican convention since 1988. The logistics of filling 120,000 balloons, transporting them to the convention hall, raising to the ceiling in large net bags, and triggering the release in a controlled cascade of falling balloons is both an art and a science.

  35. The march was a great success. It quite clearly surpassed the expectations of the organisers, and of the police who were in attendance. The Ross Theatre was filled to capacity quite early on, and well over half the attendees had to be accommodated in the gardens to the back and the sides.

    That's certainly the beauty of the venue, that crowds well in excess of the capacity of the actual terracing can be accommodated round about. And it was certainly needed yesterday.

    The fact is that even with the massive overspill, the area as a whole was getting quite near capacity. If the organisers and/or the police had expected substantially more people, they wouldn't have been allowed to use that venue. It's that simple.

    The organisers were originally talking about a repeat rally next year using the same venue but anticipating a larger crowd, before moving on to a bigger venue for 2014 as they believed by then the Gardens wouldn't take it. Well frankly I think they may have to revise that plan and move to the bigger venue next year, if they expect the turnout to be significantly larger.

    Everybody involved was well chuffed with the day, and you only have to look at the photos to see how good it was.

    As for Catalonia, well. If we'd been denied a referendum and told it was illegal for us to become independent, and had generally the sort of recent history Catalonia has, and if there had been a regular annual rally to go to with massive publicity in advance, and if it was possible to get to Edinburgh from anywhere in Scotland by public transport in under two hours, and if we were the sort of fiery Latin types with a tradition of coming out on protests, and if the temperature had been a bit over 12 degrees max - maybe you could compare the numbers.

    This wasn't a protest rally demanding anything. We know our referendum is secured. This was a fairly low-key independently-organised opportunity for supporters of independence to have a day out and support the cause. Come to think of it, I didn't get a single email from SNP HQ about it, and they're not usually reticent with their emails if they want people to get off their backsides and do something. All I saw was a short mention in our local branch newsletter.

    And another thing, the response from passers-by to the march was enormously positive. A lot of people waving and smiling in support, and very few dirty looks.

    I think some very bitter and negative people are getting a wee bit worried.


  36. Yeah you are right Abi 1320 there is no comparison between the Catalonia and Scottish Independence Campaigns.

    The Catalans seem to want Independence the Scottish peoples clearly do not.

    'I think some very bitter and negative people are getting a wee bit worried.'

    Yeah but we aint gonna listen to Ole Alex anyway no matter how bitter he gets.

  37. A WEE bit worried Rolfe!
    I think that's a WEE bit of an understatement. :D

    If yesterday's march and rally didn't give the Bitter crowd something to worry about then perhaps this will.

    In particular this part of the article that quotes the 1998 Data Protection Act.

    Under the 1998 Data Protection Act (DPA), all large organisations processing people's personal data must notify the ICO prior to handling the information. Failure to do so is an automatic offence.

    Surely as a result of this story breaking we MUST be looking at a number of individuals in the Bitter campaign hierarchy being brought up on charges under the 1998 D.P.A. Failure to do so is NOT an option!

  38. As I say Arbroath, I am hopeless at judging numbers, but what ever the numbers were, it was a strong sign of support, and a warm feeling of comradeliness. No drunks, no problems.


  39. Mind Alex is in the dock at the the Court of Session over his illegal refusal to reveal advice on the status of an independent Scotland in Europe.

  40. Anon: Like I said, the Spaniards are outdoor, on the street fiesta people. The Scots are not.

    You cannot compare oranges with pears!

  41. tris

    , 'I am hopeless at judging numbers'

    yeah well a common Natonalist problem I mean for years and years and years every poll there ever was showed more people preferred remaining as opposed from separating from the UK.

    But that little hard fact/truth aint stopped yer in your extreme and unachievable pursuit of separation.

    yeah us unionists have a 'WARM' feeling as well its either victory or I've gone and peed me self again

  42. Hello Alex mci...

    When it comes to balloons, I think the American Republicans have no equals.

    They have the whole thing sewn up.


  43. AAngrfan

    Well we have to find out if they are, or not. Do we know what Labour in Scotland thinks?

    I suspect that Mrs Lamont has been unavailable for comment.

  44. Thanks Arbroath. That is a far more inclusive reasoning than the one that came to my mind (not having much knowledge of Spanish politics).

    I'm grateful to you for posting it here.

  45. Hey Rolfe. Thanks for that. When it comes to knowing how to do it, I have to admit Alex usually has the answer.

    So ... that's the battle cry from now on!!

    "What do we want? - Independence! - How'r'we gonna vote? - YES!!"

    I love it!

  46. Excellent Arbroath... Another piece of excellent news. 12,000!

    It just gets better!

  47. Brilliant post Rolfe:

    For all we moan about our situation, we are lucky.

    No one in the UK denies that we are a country;

    No one is seriously saying that there won't be a referendum (except some unionists who think that Salmond will bottle it... huh fat chance).

    We were not out to change anything with this march, and Edinburgh is a long way to come from the North of the South West. Added to which the whole thing is 2 years away.

    Cameron has given in to everything that Salmond wanted, apart from he third question which the Scottish people wanted, not Salmond.

    To be fair, it seems that they can't do much in the way of further devolution with altering the 1707 Act, which would mean that the English (and I mean the ENGLISH, as opposed to UK) government had to approve the change.

    And they wouldn't.

    No. There will be a referendum and there will be the one question Alex wanted and they will be phrased the way that Alex wanted and at the time Alex wanted.

    YES has 100,000 signatures. How many does their NO campaign have?

  48. Danny: Can you arrange for me to have that job. I bet it pays well... and maybe I could fill them with water!!!!!

  49. Another brilliant BBC Scotlandshire, CH

  50. Och Niko. Rolfe wasn't talking about Alex... he meant you.

    Ask Taz.

  51. Arbroath, I saw that article. I'm amazed that being run by a former government minister it was so lax at following the law with all these people's names.

    I was wondering though what had happened to the leaders.

    Darling kind of disappeared after the launch and Annabel and Charlie are nowhere to be seen.

    Who is in charge?

  52. Who is in charge?

    Well I'll tell you who ISN'T in charge Tris, Lamont aint in charge! She only appears out of her bolt hole on a Thursday to regurgitate Milliband's questions that she's been told to ask!

    If she WAS in charge then this breaking of the D.P.A. would never have happened, would it? :lol:

    Just repeated the site page to save anyone scurrying back through the posts Tris.

    More over IF she WAS in charge then we can obviously expect to hear her making undeniable demands on her team members to apologise for anything untoward, like this perhaps!

    Positive campaign?
    Positive campaign my a***!
    Yet ANOTHER excellent example of how "positive" the Bitter together campaign are..........NOT!

    Lies, deceit, misinformation, misrepresentation, jealousy. Boy these Bitter camp junkies REALLY know how to dig up the NEGATIVE adjectives don't they?

  53. Niko: yer a haver... but your our haver, and Taz likes you, so we don't take exception to the blethers.

    By far and away the biggest numbers have been for devo max, which Mr Cameron says we can't have.

    We don't know what Mr Miliband thinks, because he's still trying to find Scotland on the map. And we don't know what old Lamont thinks because she's never available for comment.

    However, they don't matter because it's normally the Tories that run Britain and Cameron the Tory is the big Cheddar at the moment.

    Are you following me?

    The second favourite choice is independence.

    The least favourite is status quo.

    Almost no one wants that, and they are all Tories.

    And if we don't use the "I" word, with all the connotations of grannies left screaming for their weans on the other side of the 60 meter high barbed wire border, with crocodiles swimming in the shark infested moats: if we ask instead, do you think Scotland should control its own finances, foreign affairs, taxes and benefits, the number of people who want that goes well above 50%.

    So, go figure.

    Give my best to Taz, and tell him I hope his paws aren't too sore after all that marching. :)

  54. That is quite offensive really, Arbroath, but the more crap like this that they come up with, the more stupid they look to thinking people.

    Have you noticed how these labour councillors have a propensity for putting "Cllr" before their names?

    It always makes me laugh. I mean maybe if you were a colonel, or a Lord or something like that, you can put your title on your Facebook page, but POLEEEEEZE... a councillor.

    I've got loads of mates on the council. None does this.

  55. I hope I've managed to answer everyone's posts... There's quite a lot (for which I am most grateful). If I inadvertently left anyone out...I'm sorry!


  56. tris

    'Who is in charge? '

    Coughs!! Ahem!

    seems you know more than Alex who has said(repeatabley) the decisions will be made here in Scotland by the Scottish Parliament.
    whose to say devo max may rear its ugly head (At Alexs behest )and upturn the apple cart.

    We have one signature the one which will or will not sign any act into Law.

    anyway you Nats will be pleased to know I'm off to kill meself as mrs Niko will not turn off x factor and I cannae take any more Arggh!.

    Good day and guid bye

  57. @ Tris.....

    I'll check into that. Dropping 100,000 water fulled balloons on a roomful of Republicans sounds like a great idea. ;-)

  58. Nice to see that the LABOUR councillors are doing their best, or should that be their worst, to ensure EVERYONE knows who it is that posts the vile photos, lies, deceit etc, etc.

    Typical Labour councillor. Trying to make himself MORE important than he really is!

    Not that we ever needed more proof of the "tackling the man instead of the football" mentality of Labour. They are totally incapable of making ANY argument without following the lies,deceit, misinformation, misrepresentation mantra.

    They are ALL blinded and are incapable of seeing the wood for the trees. The LONGER they continue with this personality attacks then they will end up with LESS time to actually argue the REAL points of why we are better together. Not that they actually have ANY reasons as to why we're better together.

  59. Niko: Decisions will be made in Scotland, but more devolution is illegal without the consent of the English parliament to alter the terms of the Treaty Of Union.

    Alex could (he hasn't) promise to do that, but he can't do it on his own. Not even if 100% of Scots voted for it. If the English parliament reinstituted for the purpose says 'no', then no it is.

    If one of the signatories of the ToU decides to come out of that treaty, that is different. The English could vote all they like to keep us in and it wouldn't matter a jot.

    But if we want to alter, and to have more devolution in any meaningful way, we will have to alter it, then we need their permission.

    You should tell Mrs Niko she should be watching the Eck Factor. Much better viewing!

    Oh Niko, before you kill yourself, could you put Taz on the train for Dundee? He should be living in a good nat household!

  60. Jolly good Danny... put in a good word for me. I'll practise on them, then go to England and drop some on the house of Lords. That would wake the old codgers up!!

  61. They are all doing a fine job of making a mess of it Arbroath.

  62. To be fair, that's probably the biggest gathering of BetterTogether members I've seen outside of an Orange Order march.

    So in that context, it's actually pretty impressive...

  63. yes Doug. That's why I chose it. I didn't want to be unfair to the poor souls and chose one of their big day photographs with only 2 people!

    That would have been cheap!

    I wonder where these orange people get their bowler hats, or if they have ever considered just how daft they look in them!

  64. tris

    he is a fakey me i can be objectionable without any help .