Wednesday, 13 November 2013


Click to read the names of the 47 Labour MPs who were too busy
 to vote on the Bedroom Tax yesterday
I heard no mention of it on the BBC news this morning. Move along; nothing to see here. But these poor people had better remember to pay their tv licences along with their bedroom tax, or we'll have them!!!

For even more startling revelations about how much it costs us to keep the people who couldn't be arsed voting, in accommodation in London (including the ridiculously over pricing Mr Sarwar), I refer you here.

Isn't it interesting that they blame pairing for this. First of all, I'd say that I wish I could find someone to pair with for days when I'd rather stay home. Then you have to remember that the 'rules' on pairing (which is informal and facilitate a way of allowing for the fact that senior politicians may have to be out of the country, and their absence on government business should not affect the democratic makeup of the parliament) are only supposed to be used for unimportant matters.

Maybe the well cushioned MPs don't think that bedroom tax is an important matter.

Well, they wouldn't, given that they claim vst amounts for second houses, many of which allow enough space for their families to visit.

Interestingly On the 14th October, Chris Bryant, Labour's welfare shadow said: “It’s time for (Coalition) Ministers to repeal this cruel and unfair policy. If they don’t, Labour will.”

Odd then that Bryant was one of the people who had better things to do when it came to turning up for the vote.

Labour had a chance to overturn this. They couldn't be bothered.

If they get back into government, will they bother then. Or will there be something more important on that day?
If they can be bothered to get out of bed!


  1. Tris

    First thing first, the sheer hypocrisy of labour is unreal and to use the matching excuse on a vote as important as this is a national disgrace. On top of that, before I rant on, the lack of coverage in the media not only shows a total collaboration on the part of the media and government but for me raises serious concerns regarding our democracy.

    How can anyone even comprehend the sheer arrogance and stupidity of the labour party now and where they stand. Those of us who care know that Labour died a long time ago, but this surely now sends a message to all Labour members in Scotland that their party is now indefensible, time to support Labour for Independence or just plain shut it. Your party are a bunch of lying, deceitful morons who only care about themselves, they are taking you for mugs and if you can't see it you deserve it. I hate the Labour party and some days I hate this country.

    My last rant as I am so fucking angry is the media, not a mention anywhere, what a joke. The sooner they die off and no longer print papers the better. I will get a tele tonight and I swear if there is no mention of this utter travesty of our time then I will never buy a paper again. My wife hates politics as she says that politicians are all greedy, lying, untrustworthy scumbags only interested in themselves, how correct she is. Can we get any lower in our politics in this country, what a joke.


    1. I understand your anger. The more I read about this they more I'm furious.

      They rejected the opportunity to work with the SNP and Plaid;

      they then try to set up a debate so that they can take the glory of stopping the tax;

      they then don't bother turning up for this bebate and waste an afternoon, AND reinforce the idea that the House (and by extension the British people) is behind the tax;

      they ten use the excuse of pairing, which is not allowed for important debates, thereby emphasising that they don;t think that it is important.

      Why would any decent person vote for them?

  2. My email to Jim McGovern MP

    Dear Mr. McGovern

    I am writing to you to express my disgust at the actions of the Labour party last night, when having an opportunity to vote against this disgusting legislation they failed to turn up for work.

    To use the pairing rule as an excuse is beyond contemp and I quote from the parliament website below:


    Pairing is an arrangement where an MP of one party agrees with an MP of an opposing party not to vote in a particular division. This gives both MPs the opportunity not to attend. Pairing is an informal arrangement and is not recognised by the House of Commons' rules. Such arrangements have to be registered with the whips who check that the agreement is stuck to. Pairing is not allowed in divisions of great political importance but pairings can last for months or years.

    Further information on this subject can be found from the following link.

    The Whips Office (Commons Library note)

    I highlight Pairing is not allowed in divisions of great political importance . If the misery of thousands of the most vulnerable and poor people in our nation is not of great political importance then what is. What the Labour Party did last night was to guarantee that I will never again vote for a Labour member of Parliament and will now consider my yes vote to be 100%.

    I am ashamed today, I am ashamed that a party that is supposed to represent the poor, is more interested in representing it's own self interest, a party that has given up virtually every principle it ever held has now gone all the way. I will look forward to the election in 2016 and seeing that those with the red rosette are standing for the Tory Party.

    Mr.Bruce Hosie

  3. I really look forward to his answer to you.

    I think he did vote.

    But he must either justify those who did not, or condemn them.

    It will be interesting to see what he comes up with.

    He may use the pairing argument, but it would break parliamentary law, unless both sides had agreed that this was a matter of no real importance.

    Given the comment of Mr Bryant, Labour should have said NO to any pairing.

    iain Duncan Smith was too busy in Paris. I wonder who his opposite number was. Why did he accept that it was Ok for IDS to swan off to a conference to which he could have sent a junior.

    And finally... what do we think of the fat Tory bastard who slept through it?


    Amazingly the Daily Mirror's report made not one mention of the 47 labour MPs .

    But it did manage this criticism of some pretty low life Tories:

    Conservative MP David TC Davies said ministers were “being far too generous in many instances.”

    And he claimed the Labour MPs were shedding “crocodile tears” as they relayed the misery of their constituents.
    He said “feckless fathers” should be put in chains and made to work to pay for the upbringing of their children.

    Fellow Tory MP Therese Coffey said some victims could work an extra three hours to replace the money they have lost.

  5. Tris

    There is a huge part of me that feels our politics stooped to as low as Iraq and expenses last night and might just be the final straw for a lot of voters. I hope it swings a lot to the YES camp or to at least abandon Labour but I fear a lot will just disengage from it all. These people, in all camps, have no shame. They let us all down last night, they showed us that they definatelty no longer represent us but the party and self.

    The Tory sleeping just doesn't surprise me anymore, these people are beyond contempt , they are toilet stains and anyone who votes for them are the same. Will be interesting to see if anyone tries to defend them on this post although I think certain people might just be busy today. I also Tweeted Owen Jones, the Labour Party one man po, pom man, no response. I wonder why.


    1. In the end it is indefensible, Bruce.

      They had a chance to overturn this legislation when Plaid and the SNP used their opposition debate time to bring it up. They abstained, out of some ridiculous notion that whatever the SNP says it MUST be wrong, otherwise known as the Bain principle ...

      (I bet the stupid little idiot wishes he hadn't said that. It amounts to: I would vote to have my own granny put down if the SNP proposed legislation that she should not be put down.)

      Then they repeat the motion, this time proposed by them, and they don;t bother turning up because they get a pairing...something that is only allowed to be used in trivial unimportant debates.

      Yay, way to go Labour.

  6. They don't care as its just a game for them knowing that the media in Scotland will protect them at all times bar criminal conviction for murder. FMqs will be the only airing/brushing that this will have any chance of reaching the general public.

    1. I've not had a lot of time to look at the MSM today CH.

      I assume there is no mention of it?

  7. I've seen a lot in politics, but I haven't been so angry since Thatcherism gave me a few enforced holidays in the '80's.
    At least in those days, you felt as if the Scottish media was on your side. There was a certain solidarity amongst folk.
    It's the offhand way that the Scottish branch of Labour are acting, that has me almost ready to explode. That their chums in the media are shielding them makes it worse.
    If I bumped into Sarwar in the street tonight, I think I would end up in jail.
    Anyone that now supports Labour is now my enemy, in the same way Thatcher was. I don't mean the ordinary Labour voter, as they won't be informed of what is happening.
    SLAB are scum.

    1. Well, I think that what is show is that this big show that Sarwar made was all about embarrassing the Deputy FM, and not about helping folk who through no fault of their own, cannot get a house of the right size for them.

      We rely on the government, at whatever level (local in this case) to ensure that there is sufficient housing of the right size in their areas. But of course there was no point in councils building small council flats with one bedroom, because, under Thatcher's legislation, not ever repealed by Major, Blair, or once Scotland got its own parliament, Dewar, McConnell or McLeish, there was no point as some profiteer would come along, buy the house at a knock down price and sell it on for a profit.

      Profit is GOOD. Providing suitable housing is not.

      So incompetent government and greedy thick bankers put millions on the dole, and leave millions, working at jobs which pay too little to pay the outrageously high rents in the UK, and then they say, that ,despite there being no where the right size for people to live, they will take away the help they get if they are allocated a house that is too big for them.

      Note the man back from 10 years in Iraq and Afghanistan, living alone, ill, unable to work because of his war experiences, and given a three bedroomed house because that was all they had available. Then, out of his £71 a week he is fined for having too big a house.

      They don;t seem to see it is THEIR fault people are living like this.

      There is no excuse in my mind, at all, for a situation where a full time job, at any level, leaves you with so little money that you have to beg like a dog for handouts from the public purse.

      There is also no excuse for local government not keeping up with the demographic of the population and ensuring that there is sufficient housing for all.

      It's a most basic human right.

      I don't care what government it is. instead of sitting sleeping, perhaps they'd like to take that into consideration.

      Incidentally, I wonder if, when Mrs may has stripped away people human rights, will Labour agree to reinstate them?

      Or will they not bother to turn up for that either, because frankly they don;t give a damn.

  8. tris and other ner do well

    Unless my maths is faulty if the pairs had all turned up to vote
    the result would have been the same...........err! so

    The nat faux outrage is wery funee to watch

    1. There should have been no pairing.

      Even if the result had been the same, it might have shown that were were a t least a little bit interested.

      But of course they are not.

      Anas Sarwar collected over £25,000 in housing subsidy last year, so I suppose he's saying...I'm alright jack, adn I don't actually care much about you plebs.

      Come on Niko. Aren't you annoyed that they didn't even try?

    2. When did pairing become a law Niko?

      Going by that logic then since the coalition government has a majority of 66 MPs then only they need to turn up at Westminster and all other MPs can stay at home twiddling their thumbs until the next election.

  9. Interesting that Broon the Loon couldn't be earsed to turn up for the vote. Oh wait a minute, according to him, Broon the Loon that is, he is an EX politician!

    I wonder how the people of Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath feel about not having any political representation at Westminster. More importantly how did they feel when he, Broon the Loon, informed them all that they had elected someone who was in fact an EX politician into a NON parliamentary position of NON representation!

    1. YAY... you're back.

      We've been worried about you.

      Hope you are feeling better.

      Yeah, that was a big mistake.

      I suppose his constituency has got used to the fact that he simply doesn't represent them in parliament any more.

      So any of your paying bedroom tax in K+C, tough! He didn't care enough to go press your case and see if he couldn't turn the stone cold hearts of some liberals.

  10. Niko has just shot this SNP fox through its gut.

    He points out that the result wouldn't have changed, and that there was a pairing system in practice.

    So... next 'scandal' please? Surely this isn't the best the SNP cyber-division have to throw? Maybe things really are as bad as the Labour victory in Dunfermline suggests it is if this is the best 'rock' they have th chuck at resurgent Labour?

    1. Deano

      Is that it is that all they got ???

    2. What is this pairing system Dean and how does that fit in a supposed democracy, answers on one side of an A4 paper will suffice.

    3. Dean. They are not allowed to use pairing on matters of importance.

      Are you saying that Labour and the Tories agreed that this wasn't important?

    4. No Niko, there's plenty more.

      Today your side said that if we voted for independence the V + A wouldn't get any exhibitions from London.

      Today the V + A said that that was a lie.

      That's just the ones we have heard of today.

      Oh yeah, The Tories are getting rid of human rights.and if we are part of this mess, we won't have any either.

      That's all the ones I've seen today.

      Even if this doesn't make any difference, what your people have said is, we will call this debate, waste an afternoon of parliamentary time and as the government will win anyway, we won't even go along and show our disgust.

      After all the lower orders can wait another 2 years till we MAY be in power. It doesn't really matter. it's not going to be too cold on the street s this winter. The forecast is good.

    5. Niko & Dean - thank you for introducing me to a genuinely new experience. For the first time in my life I find myself less than delighted to see a pair of tits.

      Even if they could not have won the vote, they should have debated it and declared themselves as standing for this taxes victims. Even Anas Sarwar, who demanded that Nicola Sturgeon sign a motion for this very vote, couldn't even be arsed to turn up. And now you two turn up, positively aglow, that the "fake outrage" is funny to watch. I am sure those who will be made homeless by this tax or pushed further into poverty paying it, also find it highly amusing as well.

      I end this with an ode to those Labour MPs who ducked the debate:

      Brave Sir Sarwar ran away.
      Bravely ran away, away!
      When danger reared its ugly head,
      He bravely turned his tail and fled.
      Yes, brave Sir Sarwar turned about
      And gallantly he chickened out.
      Bravely taking to his feet
      He beat a very brave retreat,
      Bravest of the brave, Sir Sarwar!
      He is packing it in and packing it up
      And sneaking away and buggering up
      And chickening out and pissing off home,
      Yes, bravely he throwing in the sponge...

    6. Ha ha... good one there James. Candidate for Machar...

    7. Dean

      If you can write off what your party did the other night then I am afraid you have already lost. Run Dunfermline today and would the result be the same, I don't think so.


    8. Especially when they see just how completely vapid that woman is.

  11. Niko,
    so glad to see that you agree with the terribly civilised gentlemen's agreements made over a port and cigar. Members of the club really should stick together, makes life so much easier don't you know.

    Why rock the boat over something as inconsequential as political principle? It's only about the desperately poor and a few invalids after all.

    You and Dean are a fucking disgrace!

    CynicalHighlander has defended the pair of yous in the past, and I was of a similar mind before, but you pair have stepped over the moral line here!

    Good luck with that, I hope the love of this 'Union' is worth giving up all pretence of being a decent, caring, socially aware human being.

    You especially Niko, with your kid on socialism and outraged 'hate' for the Tories. Hypocrite.


    1. I'm a fucking disgrace for not getting knickers in a twist over a vote we COULD NOT have won?

      Grow up mate, then come back to me when you calm down.

    2. I always have taken the view that everyone is entitled to his opinion.

      And that is the ethos on which Munguin's Republic works.

      I take the view that debate in parliament; all these fine speeches, is about trying to convince people of the various causes.

      From the right we heard members suggesting that folk who had to pay up more should simply take on another 2 or 3 hours of work. This presumably would be from Tories who had never had to try to persuade Tesco that in order to pay their rent they would have to have some more hours. It’s the “Please sir, can I have some more” economic argument. Perhaps the MP who said that should remember that the organisations who employ people on such niggardly wages that mean that they cannot pay their rent without resort to begging from help, are not charities, but commercial enterprises whose whole raison d’être is to make more money than last year (otherwise the CEO gets the bullet).

      On the other hand, we had Labour MPs talking of their brothers living in penury, using his spare bedroom as a dialysis unit to keep him alive. (It does occur to me that maybe he should pay his brother’s extra out of his enormous salary, but that’s another matter, and not everyone has a brother with a massive income).

      Surely the whole purpose of these speeches is that they try to convince others of their points of view.

      Most feeling or compassionate or probably even educated people would think that the idea that someone could find another 3 hours of work to pay out for a bedroom that they may or may not need but can’t get rid of because no one in authority ever thought to build suitable housing for people who didn’t make vast profits out of the property boom, pretty ridiculous, for reasons already mentioned. (As a side note to that, if employers like Tesco did increase the hours of employees, they would at the same time reduce the number of employees, putting up the unemployment figures and costing even more money.)

      Most of the same bunch would think that a bloke who needs a second bedroom to keep him alive shouldn’t really have to pay an extra £15 a week for it.

      So, the idea of a debate is that you try to convince people of the rights and wrongs.

      It is unlikely that many Tories would have changed their minds. It is possible that there are still a few Liberals who might have.

      The argument that the numbers were stacked one way or another doesn’t actually hold…unless you think that there is no point whatsoever in having debates. One Labour activist (as pointed out by James Kelly) said that Labour did it to save money for the state. What was the point in MPs travelling to London for this debate when the result was a foregone conclusion?

      My question then (and James’s) would be to ask the activist, if, given that there is a majority government in the coalition, what the hell was the point of anyone turning up for any debate, ever, and why, when the result was already known, did Labour call for the debate in the first place?

    3. The argument that there was no point in these people turning up, because for every YES that turned up, a NO would have done so, simply indicated that these debates are a waste of time...and our money.

      Added to this, this pairing system is not allowed for important debated. Presumably the Whips must decide what is, and what is not "important".

      This was clearly not considered important.

      I wonder, had we been discussing MPs housing allowances, would they have considered that to be so unimportant?

      On thing I would ask of you though, respectfully, is if we could ditch the F word.

      I know everyone uses it these days, but it still offends some, and I certainly not like to discourage readers.

      I don't mind it occasionally guys, but, it can become habitual.


    4. Tris,
      my apologies for the language. Unfortunately my feelings remain the same.


    5. braco, don't worry my friend.

      I swear too sometimes. But I just like t keep a check on it, because otherwise it can become a fest of swearing...and some people really dislike that.

      Not to mention that me mum reads all the stuff! :)

    6. Dean,
      this is not some political game where you get to slide down the morality snake and then throw the dice and start again.

      This is a FIGHT!

      Every time you refuse to fight, and tell yourself you would have lost anyway, makes the next fight less likely. And the next... and the next.

      That's true with real physical shit as well as the more cerebral, political end of a person's moral stance. You, Niko and your political organisation of choice, yesterday, decided not to bother to fight. Tell yourself all the reasons and excuses you like.

      That's why this pairing crap, as an excuse, makes the whole thing worse, not better!

      Christ, there wasn't even a black eye or a fat lip on the table, (apparently though, there was a nice vegetarian dish and a good bottle of wine for brave defender of the poor, down trodden and needy, the Rt Hon. Jim Murphy MP. Unfortunately it was in Glasgow, not London)!

      I do not believe either of you two would be holding this position without the constitutional pressures being felt by Unionist's, such as yourselves, up here in Scotland. Good English and Welsh socialists seem to be having no difficulty at all decrying the hypocrites from last nights vote, so you have obviously made your choice. 'BetterTogether' indeed.

      I am all grown up Dean, I am calm and I am angry. You and Niko have passed over a threshold and into another moral world. I recognise it from the last time I witnessed it, back in the mid eighties.

      Nasty breeds nasty, so don't be complaining.


    7. I don't think that people who refuse to engage with the arguments that Yes are putting forward about the union, have taken into consideration what it’s happening, little by little, slowly but surely.

      The government of the Uk has developed more and more in the American model of private enterprise; the devil take the hindmost and the churches can look after the very poor.

      Only there isn't any church in the Uk. The big society that was supposed to take over from the state doesn’t exist, because most of us are far too involved in ourselves and our own needs and wants.

      Scotland devolved has managed to escape quite a bit of that so far, but it's only a matter of time (and a no vote would accelerate that) and we will have to cut our cloth according to the English dictates. The amount we get from England to finance our expenditure.

      Our free health service will go; our free education will go; our care will go, and we will end up with thousands of people dying for the want of attention in our hospitals, as they are already doing in England. Hospitals running out of money for the folly of PPS off the books spending under Brown are closing down. There is no money to keep them afloat. And rich people don’t use them anyway, so what the hell.

      Welfare, or Social Security, call it what you will, will became something that people at the bottom beg for, and are spat upon for needing. Skivers not strivers, never mind that they have cancer or Parkinson’s. ‘They could do something if they just pulled themselves up by the bootstraps and stopped scrounging from hardworking financiers’ will say the likes of the Tory MP who demanded that those people who couldn’t afford the bedroom tax increase simply get more hours.

      The SNP can't stop that happening. Labour doesn't appear to want to. The Liberals are a dead party. They may as well amalgamate with the Tories. And the Tories only want Scotland for the subsidy it provides.

      In 50- 100 years time when the oil is gone (maybe) they may well get rid of us.
      It’s not a joke. It gets worse by the day and even if Labour wanted to reverse the education bills, and the privatised health, they couldn't afford to. You can bet these private companies will have it sewn up so tight.

    8. Tris,
      absolutely correct.

      I think this is the message that is going to slowly filter into the general Scottish electoral consciousness, the closer and closer we come to making the decision on the best future direction to take for our Country.

      Things like Labour's abject moral failure to stand up and fight for their supposed principles, never mind constituents, will be used to help judge how we can expect the party that Scotland has traditionally relied on to civilise Westminster, to act in the future.

      That's why these moments become iconic. They capture the watershed that has been occurring slowly over time in the electorates view of a party, and then nails that realisation down HARD!

      It's actually all the past years of betrayal of principle and arrogance that is the real cause, but things like yesterdays vote just break the camel's back.

      That's why Dean and Niko can't see it. For them it's just another straw, what's all the fuss about?

      The Labour Party, and therefor the UK that they are supposed to be the progressive force within, will be judged very harshly! Especially against the reasoned and optimistic future being painted by the folk who have already delivered on free education, elderly care, health service protection, council house building etc etc....

      I do think it's going to be a strong YES vote, come the time.


    9. I do hope it will be.

      Looking at some of the things that are happening in England, I despair of the idea of of our laws having to come into line with them.

  12. Tris's Mum,
    my sincere apologies.


    1. Hey braco... it's really not a big deal. :)

    2. Braco:

      Tris's mum says thank you; it was a nice apology and she will continue to read your comments because they are usually full of good common sense!