Sunday, 8 September 2013

THIS, YOU SEE, IS THE KIND OF MESS YOU GET WHEN A COUNTRY THAT IS TOO WEE, TOO POOR AND TOO STUPID, TAKES CONTROL OF ITS OWN AFFAIRS

(Apologies. I have no idea what happened to the formatting.) 
I've just been reading a post at WOS which points out the difference in the economic situations between Scotland and Norway.

As Stuart points out, Norway has a slightly smaller population, a more northerly aspect, a more challenging climate and topography, but it discovered oil in approximately the same quantities as we did, at the same time. Now, 40 years or so later, it has an embarrassment of wealth, while our standard of living is dropping like a stone. 
They are independent but the sun still shines
The Norwegian Ministry of Finance forecasts that the global (petroleum) fund will reach NOK 4.3 trillion or £458,616,144,000 by the end of 2014 and NOK 6 trillion (£639,632,000,000) by the end of 2019.  In a parliamentary white paper in April 2011 the Norwegian Ministry of Finance forecast that the 2030 value of the fund would be NOK 7.4 trillion (£831,521,600,000). Eight hundred and thirty one and a half billion pounds.
 
Roads without potholes
As I understand it, the Scottish or British fund stands at £0.0.
 
They have churches too
Additionally, the Government Pension Fund in Norway manages the state social security money, a fund to pay pensions and benefits. This fund is managed by a separate board and separate government entity from the petroleum fund. The Government Pension Fund – Norway had a value of NOK 106.9 billion at the end of 2006 (the latest figures I can find). That is for a population of 4.7 million £11,161,058,000). 
 
Bergen
As I understand it, the equivalent fund in the UK (population 62 million) stands at £0. Pensions and social security are paid from current taxation, which of course is why they have to be pruned back at the moment. In fact as the poor earn less and pay less tax and the rich find ways to avoid tax, it appears our social security fund is being financed by borrowing.
Now I'm not suggesting that everything in Norway is perfection, but just glancing at another set of figures I note that the absolute poverty rate in Norway is quoted at 1.7% of the population, where in the UK it is quoted as 8.7%.  
Oslo

Why?

Because they had sensible government which took the vast wealth that oil gave to them, and invested it in bringing the country's infrastructure up to date and then investing the surplus in funds spread over the world against the day that the oil runs out or the price drops or someone discovers new ways to fuel civilization. 
Coastal Road
The unpredictability  of a natural resource like oil is a favourite of the British government and the No Chance Campaign when belittling the Scottish economy, but strangely we have seen little in the way of preparedness from Westminster over the years. When the oil runs out, or ceases to have value, Britain will, alone in the oil producing nations of the world, nothing.

54 comments:

  1. Independent and the sun still shines?

    Lies I tell you! Lies!

    :P

    ReplyDelete
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    1. I seem to remember Mrs Thatcher in one of her loopier moments indicating that bird were singing louder since the Conservative government took power.

      ... so anything is possible...

      And let's be honest, for a bit of sunshine....

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  2. The Norwegian Government should be in jail for their mis-use of natural resources.

    Bruce

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    1. We could force them to come and live in the UK... which is a bit like jail... and then we could make them do hard labour (no pun intended) by trying to sort out our economy!

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    2. true, i live in norway, and they havent done 1 good thing in 8 years, since they got the power..

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    3. Would you like to elaborate on that. From all I can make out life there is a lot better than it is here...

      ...Maybe we are all wrong?

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  3. How dare these Norwegians create an Oil fund worth NOK 4.3 trillion (£458,616,144,000) by the end of 2014.

    How dare these Norwegians create a Pension fund worth NOK 106.9 billion (£11,161,058,000) as of 2006.

    Who do these Norwegians think they are?

    Have they no considerations for their neighbours?
    I mean do they not realise that they are making us look like the paupers of Europe?
    Oh wait a minute it's not the Norwegians that are doing that it's WESTMINSTER!!!

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    1. Good questions. They need answered!

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  4. If some Scots believe we need to be in a union because we aren't big enough, clever enough or rich enough to be independent, can we be in a union with Norway because they seem to be doing a better job of running a country than Westminster is.

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  5. no need to worry yerselves about Norway as youse of Nats lot aint going anywhere.
    just remember the Oil fund is always larger on the other side of the Oil field.

    The one thing which is to far to ' WEE ' is the 'YES' vote
    Alex Salmond aint ' POOR ' not all thats for sure lot of his disciples are though
    well that cos they believe his lies that makes them ' STUPID '


    I know why dont you have march about the place bit like the Orange order do
    you can have band and everything and we can line the route and laugh at how few turned up.

    If Norway is so brill why dont you leave and go and live there
    and take your whinging ways with ya and dont forget to take Brownlie.

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    1. Niko

      Once the YES vote wins let me know which airport or train station you are leaving from for your beloved england and I'll drop you off.

      Bruce

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    2. "If Norway is so brill why dont you leave and go and live there"

      Because they are Scottish not Norwegian.

      I think this qualifies as a fatuous comment Niko dearest x

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    3. "If Norway is so brill why dont you leave and go and live there
      and take your whinging ways with ya and dont forget to take Brownlie."
      If England is your Eldorado why don't YOU move there and give us OOR country to run how WE see fit and you can live in ignorance and bliss on your side of the border

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    4. ^^^^^^^^
      My post
      Just incase you say anything aboot no wantin tae be id'd
      Jist didnae ken a hud tae sign in

      Delete
    5. Niko: Go and take Taz out for a walk. You've been overworking and Mrs N is giving you a hard time about the decorating and you are taking it out on your friends. That's not nice. And it's not fair.

      Or I'll come through and sort you out!

      Delete
    6. Well have a big send off for him Bruce... a pipe band and awww. And he'll be greetin' and wantin' tae bide.

      But we'll put him on the train anyway... And I'll look after Taz!

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    7. Clanchief... I see you worked it out then...

      We'll put him on the train and give him a piece and enough money for a cup of tea on the way down to England...

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  6. Change the record PLEASE Niko.
    Your record is cracked and stuck in the same old rut it is becoming such a bore now!
    This article isn't about you by any chancer Niko after all this ignoramus sounds just like you after a night out!

    http://newsnetscotland.com/index.php/scottish-news/7986-anger-as-better-together-chief-gloats-over-ricky-burns-pumping

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    1. You'll never change Niko or Dean for that matter as they both are vying for the short plank award. One can waste ones time to give them answers but they don't listen dyed in the wool British Loyalists to there dying breaths.

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    2. I saw that story... He's an ex police communications person... huh... Communications? He don't know the meaning.

      I wish I could get £100,000 a year for making an arse of myself like that.

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    3. I think Niko was having a pull a our collective legs there CH...

      And I see signs, even ever so slight that Dean could be persuaded to take a broader view.

      As for Niko, Taz has his instructions. On referendum day he is to bite Niko on the bum every 10 minutes until he votes YES...

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    4. As a matter of fact for our cynical cynical I've not made my mind up yet.

      Some of us take the facts in, then set up a view on issues.

      We aren't all crusading ideologues like Cynical or Niko.

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    5. Good Dean. I'm happy to hear it.

      As I said before, I've yet to hear a positive case for the union that doesn't involve world power, prestige etc, none of which actually touches me, my neighbours or the people I work with, in any way, other than I help to pay for it.

      But if someone could give a positive case that you could argue was for the good of the people, I would certainly listen to it. Just don't ask me to swallow UN, EU, G8, G20, G whiz... That's a pile of nonsense; just talking shops for pumped up, self important prats.

      I've far more respect for the local councillor who gets an old lady into good sheltered housing so that she can be allowed home from hospital (Joe Morrow, Labour), than some big headed minister bumping his gums at the UN.

      Actually, I'm pretty sure most people (not all) are like that. If you give people a good argument they will listen.



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  7. Change the record PLEASE Niko.
    Your record is cracked and stuck in the same old rut it is becoming such a bore now!
    This article isn't about you by any chancer Niko after all this ignoramus sounds just like you after a night out!

    http://newsnetscotland.com/index.php/scottish-news/7986-anger-as-better-together-chief-gloats-over-ricky-burns-pumping

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  8. It's sickening even criminal how the British Regime including the MSM has been undermining Scotland's potential for decades for personnel selfish reasons.

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  9. A better example to wave at people in the no to Independence camp is Finland. No oil fund to help it there but it remains one of the best economies in Europe. Also, can you check the picture you have for Oslo? Looks very much like a US city (not quite how I remember it)

    Cheers, Don

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    1. Hey Don... I checked, and it is certainly listed under Oslo, but you are probably right.There was something about a concert hall in it, in English.

      never trust Google, but that's for your top off.

      Yes. I don't know much about Finland, but it sounds amazing. I have a Bulgarian mate who has been there... must get him to update me.

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    2. Don... It certainly gives the impression of being Oslo here:

      http://www.thesmartgirlstravelguide.com/travel-to-oslo/

      But I have a feeling you're right.

      Anyone know Oslo?

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  10. To paraphrase someone else.. ( Foulkes maybe ).. Bloody Norwegians.. they,re doing it on purpose

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    1. LOL yeah... it was ffoukes his Nobleness...

      I bet they are doing it on purpose too.

      Governments are supposed to work hard to make life more difficult for people, not easier. I can see why the Noble Georgie was a bit perplexed.

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  11. And so the rot begins!

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-23880360


    When you have an article written by Douglas Fraser over on the BBC site telling everyone who reads it that the Hootsmon is in trouble then you know that the Hootsmon is in DEEP doo doo! lol

    Is anyone running a book on how much longer the Hootsmon is going to last now? lol

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    1. The Beeb reporters will be lost to find another news source.

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    2. Hell while they search around for another 'source' for their news stories we might actually get some TRUTH out of the BBC, there again maybe I'm dreaming of an alternate universe. lol

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    3. Hell while they search around for another 'source' for their news stories we might actually get some TRUTH out of the BBC, there again maybe I'm dreaming of an alternate universe. lol

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    4. Interesting article.. You wonder, don't you, how long the decline can go on.

      One of the things I noted was that local newspapers like Courier and Press & Journal which don't give much away on their sites, are doing better. So if you want to know what happened to Mrs McGillicuddy's cat in that tree in Dalrymple Terrace, you jolly well got to fork out for the paper.

      Of course newspapers got bigger and bigger and no one has time to read all that stuff now.

      Sundays need a cart to take them home in, and most of it goes straight in the paper bin.

      The only national with upwardly mobile figures is the I at 20p...

      Maybe there is a lesson there...

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  12. Interesting comment about the roads. I was in Norway in July, and the tour guide said that not so long ago the roads were absolutely terrible. Like a third world country she said. People were up in arms, complaining that they had all this money tied up in the oil fund, but the transport links were falling to pieces.

    So the government listened, and took some money out of the oil fund, and fixed the roads. And I suppose gave people employment and got a bit of money circulating while they were at it. (I think they are afraid of doing too much of the latter for economic reasons.)

    Gee, it sure would be nice to have the money put by for when something important needs mending.

    The tour guide was boasting about the oil fund quite a lot. She mentioned that they were going into property, and buying up half of Oxford Street. I'm not sure if she realised she had a bus full of Scots - she maybe thought she was winding up the English.

    Gee, it sure would have been nice to buy up Oxford Street, just for the bragging rights.

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    1. Fancy a government that listens, Rolfe, and that does what the people want.

      I saw somewhere that they build roads there and toll them until they are paid for, then they are given back to the people.

      Did you find that?

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    2. PS: There's an oil fund bought up most of Prince's Street... I don't think it's Norways though. Probably Middle Eastern.

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  13. We dont want run by the english because we hate yous! you steal our money and try to suppress us to benefit yourself! Yous might take our money but yous will never take our freedom!!!! Why in gods name would the english want us if we hate them so much? is it because they love us? NO it our resources ...common thieves!!!!!! I will never bow to the english as yous raped us and try to take us over but we sent yous home tae think again!

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    1. Truth is, Anon, I don't think most Scots hate the English. Why would they?

      No one wants to be ruled from another country, with the benefits of THAT country as the primary factor in legislation. But it's not the ordinary people that rule us from England.

      English people are the same as any other people. They are workers, mums dads, mates lovers... same as we all are. Scots or Norwegians or Icelanders or Matswani or Chinese or Russians...we all made of the same stuff.

      I'm not a fan of racism of any kind. I've suffered from it and it is so wrong. There's plenty to dislike about me, but not that I am Scottish! You can't help where you were born.

      Your rant reminds me of the less appealing features of people in the EDL or the National Front, here or anywhere else in the world. Even the lower orders people in UKIP.

      As I say. I don't like racism and I won't tolerate it here. Besides making me sick, it does our cause no god whatsoever with reasonable thinking people.

      Please consider that a strong word to the wise.

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    2. Yeah John. That seems to sum it up pretty well.

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  14. I believe that Norway is protecting the skies above our rigs because the UK is unable to do so, stop sniggering at the back as I read somewhere that the MOD was a mistype MOW and the UK only does apologies in the distant future stiff upper lip an all that.

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    1. Well it wouldn't surprise me to know we depended on Norway, CH.

      The UK talks a big talk, but walks like a toddler...

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  15. i could write a book on how horrific standars people in the north of norway have to live with.

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    1. Would you like to elaborate on that too?

      I'm interested in the comparisons.

      Of course I know there is poverty in Norway. It runs at about 1.7% I think... whereas in Britain it is at 8.7%.

      You have to accept that there will always be poor, and even good social security cannot beat that.

      But tell us about the people in the North. It must be a hard life there in any case...

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    2. And I'm quite sure that come Scottish independence, the Highlands and Islands will want to improve their standing at Holyrood, or start their own independence movement. But in the meantime, it'll *still* be better to be governed by Holyrood than by Westminster.

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    3. Well Hamish, the FM and the Cabinet already discussed more powers for the islands, when he was in Orkney a few weeks ago.

      At least, I feel that Edinburgh is a bit closer in a lot of ways (I know it's too far for a day trip from the islands unless you can afford to fly). But it's not just physical; it's more than that. You feel that at least the people there are concentrating on Scotland... and not running the world!

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  16. Ok i have experienced a form of belittlement when i was visiting England but not all English folk are like that. We got laughed out of a pub as one of us didn't have i.d by a group of people including the manager.The second pub we went into were funny with us as well. However the third pub/restaurant were very welcoming and they were all part of the same chain! The moral of the story is you will always get nationalist idiots that will always have their opinions but where is the need?

    We are all human beings in the end doesn't matter where you are from, what colour your skin is or what you look like. Once everyone gets past these petty insignificant ideals they have then the world can move on as a whole.

    Norway should be used as an example to follow not as a reason to slag of one another especially the countries we live in. Where does that get us ?

    It is in fact a reality that Scotland would be a much richer country without England and Wales as we have most of the oil resources as well as most of the good fertile farm land and the beautiful scenery to boot (highlands) which is good for tourism. Scotland would be able to keep all that wealth generated from those resources within it's own borders and we wouldn't have to split it all up between the surplus millions that live in the rest of the UK for the greater good.

    Now before anyone replies with "England is beautiful too" yes you are right but in different ways. England is mostly flat land but you do have the dales and the lake district.

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    1. I think every country has its own beauties. If you think about the fabulous little villages (like the ones they use to film Midsomer Murders) they are idyllic. But then I've been places in Switzerland that have taken my breath away in a totally different way. Likewise in Turkey and Albania, Greece, Morocco,....too many places to mention.

      We would be much richer if we had done what Norway did... make life better for its people, and not try to keep our place at the top table.

      So hopefully we can still do this. They say another 40 years of oil... and look where Norway is after 40 years of oil.

      Totally agree with you about racism. It happens here; it happens in England, Ireland and Wales.

      Again, I've seen it...just like lovely scenery...all over the world.

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