tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post7559843884591947133..comments2023-12-20T19:39:29.865+00:00Comments on Munguin's Republic: A TEA PARTY FOR THE GRAND OLD PARTYMunguinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16475165830302054002noreply@blogger.comBlogger34125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post-21280964811149354952010-11-04T20:46:35.623+00:002010-11-04T20:46:35.623+00:00PS.....but to be more accurate....of course there ...PS.....but to be more accurate....of course there IS a so-called "mainstream" GOP today which does not share the far right views of the Tea Party faction. And it will be the struggle of these groups for control of the party that will be so interesting to watch, as it plays out in the 2012 campaign season.Dannyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14450203101640592230noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post-14617037520521126962010-11-04T20:40:31.526+00:002010-11-04T20:40:31.526+00:00Dean....By simply KNOWING that there was a liberal...Dean....By simply KNOWING that there was a liberal/progressive GOP, you're miles ahead of many young Americans who cannot think beyond the current idea of conservative Republicans and liberal Democrats.<br /><br />As one who considers myself a liberal Democrat, and disdains the rightward course of the GOP since Goldwater, I do try to take the broader historical view. Who could not admire the abolitionist Republican Party of Lincoln or the progressive party of Theodore Roosevelt's time?<br /><br />But by 1932, the old GOP seemed frozen in place as it faced the realities of the great depression. Then it was the political (not intellectual) genius of FDR which managed to cobble together into a working political coalition a disparate coalition of urban and rural interests, labor unions, small businesses, ethnic groups, academic intellectuals, and the old southern Democrats. <br /><br />What is left of FDR's coalition still exists in the liberal spirit of the Democratic Party today. But it's hard to know what a liberal minded Republican should do on election day in the US. That branch of the party seems to have withered away. Only the shouts of the Tea Party protesters can be heard.<br /><br />Sorry, another dose of history. No more I promise...LOL. But thanks Dean for your interest and comments.Dannyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14450203101640592230noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post-20300420511508218302010-11-04T19:51:29.099+00:002010-11-04T19:51:29.099+00:00Lol Dean. I'm sure Doctor Danny will be able t...Lol Dean. I'm sure Doctor Danny will be able to cure that....<br /><br />Keep taking the tablets!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post-58433213868770755572010-11-04T18:12:18.407+00:002010-11-04T18:12:18.407+00:00Danny,
Totally, I can see Palin as although an un...Danny,<br /><br />Totally, I can see Palin as although an unlikely nominee; if she got it could cause the Obama crew real problems. There is a very effective narrative for her to write if given the opportunity and platform.<br /><br />I just hope that the GOP establishment block her; and in doing so arrest the rightward march being driven today by the teabaggers.<br /><br />Also thanks for that piece of history, I suffer from a republican-liberal obsessionism. I tend to convieniently 'forget' the historic place in the GOP that these rightie nuts have ...Dean MacKinnon-Thomsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08221192592535723681noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post-28587621232830988572010-11-04T16:16:14.407+00:002010-11-04T16:16:14.407+00:00PS Dean....I failed to specifically respond to the...PS Dean....I failed to specifically respond to the excellent point you made about Bush and Palin. I had suggested that the bitter memory of the Bush administration might make a Palin administration less likely....(Bush and Palin both being Republicans and having comparably tiny intellectual resources.) But your point to the contrary is definitely more likely. The Tea Party conservatives despise the free spending Bush....who was in no way a fiscal conservative. So they might be very successful in running a campaign which points out the ways in which they are so very different from Bush and the old GOP.Dannyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14450203101640592230noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post-16134201648203426572010-11-04T14:14:27.224+00:002010-11-04T14:14:27.224+00:00Dean....I applaud your unfavorable view of the rig...Dean....I applaud your unfavorable view of the rightward march of the modern Republicans. Historically, this began with the nomination of the western conservative Goldwater (and the booing of the New Yorker Rockefeller) at San Francisco in 1964. Goldwater went on to be slaughtered in the landslide for Lyndon Johnson that year, but Goldwater is in some ways the beginning of modern Republican conservatism.<br /><br />Of course the historic birthplace home of the GOP is in Wisconsin and Michigan in the upper Midwest....a fitting place for a party founded by people who opposed the Kansas-Nebraska act and the expansion of slavery into the new western territories. And the spiritual father of the party, Abraham Lincoln, came from the Midwestern "Prairie State" of Illinois.<br /><br />But after the civil war, when slavery was no longer an issue, the Republicans morphed into the pro-business party of rapidly industrializing, post-civil war America. At this point, the spiritual "home" of the party moved to the corporate board rooms of New York City and the industrial northeast. And it was here in the New York party that the modern progressive (liberal) wing of the GOP was born in the person of Theodore Roosevelt. And this was also the home of the the GOP progressive Nelson Rockefeller, who served 14 years as Governor of New York State. (An office that had also been held by both Theodore Roosevelt and Teddy's cousin FDR.....same progressive spirit, but different political party. They all served in the New York state house.)<br /><br />Then most recently, the geographic home of the new socially conservative GOP has really moved from the northeast to the old South, which had been the post-civil war home of the famously conservative "Southern Democrats." But the long political journey of the GOP to the right had really begun in the west in 1964, with the nomination of Arizona's Barry Goldwater, when Nelson Rockefeller, who had been Vice President of the United States, was booed off the stage of the San Francisco convention by the conservative Republicans.<br /><br />So the antics of today's Tea Party crowd have a considerable historical tradition in the conservative GOP. I share your view of them Dean.Dannyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14450203101640592230noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post-83012728269227625402010-11-04T01:55:43.807+00:002010-11-04T01:55:43.807+00:00In the north-east its birthplace!!
Sigh. I have t...In the north-east its birthplace!!<br /><br />Sigh. I have to face it, despite my HUGE problems with the Democrats, it seems to me that I simply cannot support the Republicans if the teabaggers succeed in pushing it to the right [though I am still not convinced the mid terms make that a certainty or probability].Dean MacKinnon-Thomsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08221192592535723681noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post-73256471177692990802010-11-04T01:32:17.796+00:002010-11-04T01:32:17.796+00:00Very true Dean, the era of the liberal wing of the...Very true Dean, the era of the liberal wing of the Republican party....the party of Theodore Roosevelt and Nelson Rockefeller....is a thing of the past. It was a watershed moment for the GOP when Rockefeller stood before the 1964 nominating convention at San Francisco, on the eve of Barry Goldwater's nomination (Goldwater an Arizona conservative), and tried to speak. Rockefeller could hardly make himself heard above the booing. <br /><br />Today, the Republican Party is little represented in the northeast, the spiritual home of the Roosevelt/Rockefeller party.Dannyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14450203101640592230noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post-44632683178749993242010-11-04T01:24:40.274+00:002010-11-04T01:24:40.274+00:00Dean, Danny and i hav had interesting discussions ...Dean, Danny and i hav had interesting discussions about the difference between the Democrats of the North and South... and of course the Republicans too. It would be ridiculous to expect in a vast country covering deserts, mountains, swamps, plains, tropical islands and arctic tundra that a single political philosphy would suit all...<br /><br />After all, our Labour and Tory parties are very different beasts from the South of England and the Midlands of Scotland... and our union is tiny by comparison.<br /><br />Fascinating subject.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post-60662317150732396032010-11-04T01:02:40.072+00:002010-11-04T01:02:40.072+00:00Danny,
Yes, I was put off by Obama's rockstar...Danny,<br /><br />Yes, I was put off by Obama's rockstar stuff too. <br /><br />Seemed to me to be empty platitudes --- I think I was right, which is why he pulled in Hilary in the Whitehouse and HER healthcare policy.<br /><br />I have always been one of those kind of political minds who would [had I been born in the US] have been a Republican Liberal ... not many of them left now however ...Dean MacKinnon-Thomsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08221192592535723681noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post-45641115670597351412010-11-04T00:54:00.210+00:002010-11-04T00:54:00.210+00:00Dean....
I was a Hillary fan too. I was at first ...Dean....<br /><br />I was a Hillary fan too. I was at first put off by the rock star hysteria that was part of the political emergence of Obama. It was disappoining for me to see Hillary lose the Democratic nomination after having come so close. <br /><br />You make a great point about Bush. It's just routine here that Republican conservatives now point with horror at the fiscal disaster that was the Bush administration. More than happy to throw him under the bus, as I mentioned to Tris above.Dannyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14450203101640592230noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post-21440757360302756952010-11-04T00:42:28.960+00:002010-11-04T00:42:28.960+00:00I'd love Obama to get lost and give Hilary the...I'd love Obama to get lost and give Hilary the Whitehouse ... but then I have always been a HUGE Hilary fan ...<br /><br />After all the first term has been good for her, it has been her successes not Obama's... HER healthcare reform ... her foreign policy energy leading to some tangible movement ...Dean MacKinnon-Thomsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08221192592535723681noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post-27966858426025850242010-11-04T00:40:28.894+00:002010-11-04T00:40:28.894+00:00Tris....
I think that it will take a long time for...Tris....<br />I think that it will take a long time for the memory of Bush to fade. Today, when the disaster of his administration is mentioned, Republicans of every stripe are quite happy to throw him under the bus. And I think they're generally sincere about hating his memory.<br /><br />I doubt that logical as it might seem, he will step down in 2012. Presidents just do not voluntarily leave the so-called "splendid misery" of the American presidency. And a commentator recently speculated that Obama is certainly not going to let someone else enjoy the fruits of his administration's labors in a future era of an expanding economy, increasing tax revenues, and a declining deficit. (At least that might be his rosy image of the second term future.)<br /><br />But of course as you note, Presidents never really get much done in a second term.<br /><br />There continues to be speculation about Hillary of course. A while back, the White House shot down speculation that she would replace Biden as VP in a second Obama term in order to perfectly position her for the Democratic nomination in 2016. She will stay at State where she is doing a wonderful job the White House said....LOL.Dannyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14450203101640592230noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post-2345625928690555412010-11-04T00:38:56.433+00:002010-11-04T00:38:56.433+00:00Why do we assume the memory of Bush will be harmfu...Why do we assume the memory of Bush will be harmful to Palin and her chances?<br /><br />She represents the teabaggers - who are a conservative [fiscally] revolt against Bush era Republican establishment!!<br /><br />Palin may actually prove a danger precisely because the risk is she could energise the Republican base by drawing out the fact she is the anthesis of Bush era conservative politics.Dean MacKinnon-Thomsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08221192592535723681noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post-52274088753901689362010-11-03T23:42:54.325+00:002010-11-03T23:42:54.325+00:00I wonder Danny, if the memory of dubYa will have f...I wonder Danny, if the memory of dubYa will have faded by the year 2016?<br /><br />I also wonder if you think that Obama should simply stand down in 2012, his health care bill hopefully in tact, and leave mrs Clinton a straight fight for the White House.<br /><br />Obama could do so much more now that he has been president, and he'll not get much more done as president.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post-78251713855392792012010-11-03T22:26:10.686+00:002010-11-03T22:26:10.686+00:00Brownlie....I think that the memory of George W. B...Brownlie....I think that the memory of George W. Bush's administration is one of the things that will make a Palin presidency unlikely. Even Republican Party leaders at long last finally came to their senses about DubYa.Dannyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14450203101640592230noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post-91681360196232622922010-11-03T22:21:46.898+00:002010-11-03T22:21:46.898+00:00Munguin....Thinking of President Palin, I have con...Munguin....Thinking of President Palin, I have considered asking Tris to look into Scottish immigration law on my behalf. But thinking of her finger on the nuclear button, I think you're right. Mars would be a much better option.Dannyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14450203101640592230noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post-36180362935116966762010-11-03T22:13:37.413+00:002010-11-03T22:13:37.413+00:00Tris....
Yes, the Speaker of the House Nancy Pelos...Tris....<br />Yes, the Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi, with her so-called "San Francisco values", became a favorite target of right wing hate. I suppose this was because she was one of the principal players in the Congressional leadership which secured the passage of Obama's hated liberal legislative agenda. Pelosi was in some ways an easier target than Obama, who remained personally popular in the country. <br /><br />Of particular note was Pelosi's high profile efforts to achieve House passage of the health care reform act. The landmark health bill is especially hated, and its repeal is nothing less than a holy crusade by the far right. The Republican leadership of both houses has promised their lunatic base that they will work for repeal. It's likely, as a purely symbolic act, that the new Speaker John Boehner and the Republican House will now pass a repeal bill. Of course Harry Reid and the Democrats will never let such a bill see the light of day in the Senate. It's doubtful that given the famous Senate filibuster, it could ever be brought up, even in a Republican controlled Senate. And would be subject to Obama's veto in any case. So the health bill is secure. But there will be symbolic action in the House to placate the Tea Party crowd who are furious about federal law providing health care for Americans who cannot otherwise afford it. <br /><br />To the politicians it's all politics of course. But some of the Tea Party crazies take this stuff seriously. I suppose they are less evil than simply deranged in some inexplicable way. But they are surely passionate, and certain to vote Republican. So the politicians will pander to them in every possible way......just as George W. Bush and Karl Rove did in years past.Dannyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14450203101640592230noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post-91745601208958520192010-11-03T22:11:08.028+00:002010-11-03T22:11:08.028+00:00Anon,
That isn't exactly true for all unionis...Anon,<br /><br />That isn't exactly true for all unionist parties in Scotland! Annabel Goldie's Tories voted for every SNP budget bill for example after reaching a negotiated common ground.<br /><br />I do agree with you vis-a-vis Labour however. But I rather think the SNP did well out of the Tories and vis-versa frankly.Dean MacKinnon-Thomsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08221192592535723681noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post-57243329208651044942010-11-03T21:34:32.526+00:002010-11-03T21:34:32.526+00:00If that fruitcake Palin gets elected as President ...If that fruitcake Palin gets elected as President then I am going to emigrate to Mars!Munguinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16475165830302054002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post-27844090834588241652010-11-03T21:25:24.766+00:002010-11-03T21:25:24.766+00:00Message from America
the labour and Unionist part...Message from America<br /><br />the labour and Unionist parties in Scotland only had to become the “parties of ‘No’” to achieve success. Their political tactic was as effective as it was transparently obvious. They would oppose everything, put forward no alternatives, watch things go to hell in a hand basket, and then blame the Scottish National Party when the next election came around.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post-67618551704969784102010-11-03T20:44:15.566+00:002010-11-03T20:44:15.566+00:00Dean
If America can elect George W Bush not once ...Dean<br /><br />If America can elect George W Bush not once but twice anything can and probably will happen.<br /><br />Will you still support nuclear weapons on the Clyde with Palins finger on the trigger?<br /><br />Remember USA says when they can be fired, and now if reports are correct when and how they are maintained, what do we get? oh yes we get to pay for them. Another union benefit.Dubbiesidehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14351210091827242674noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post-44545036544346408062010-11-03T20:25:40.124+00:002010-11-03T20:25:40.124+00:00Dubbieside,
Oh totally. If Palin gets to presiden...Dubbieside,<br /><br />Oh totally. If Palin gets to presidency [Which I doubt], then the transatlantic alliance should be brought to an end.<br /><br />She is mad, bad and dangerous and I want nothing to do with her, or her teabagger nutters.Dean MacKinnon-Thomsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08221192592535723681noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post-19584610596171507712010-11-03T20:15:08.559+00:002010-11-03T20:15:08.559+00:00How quickly have the USA voters forgotten George W...How quickly have the USA voters forgotten George W Bush? Surely they are not looking for "more of the same please"?brownliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09690872114535168567noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post-76148517111907149002010-11-03T19:59:24.023+00:002010-11-03T19:59:24.023+00:00It will be interesting to see just what the teabag...It will be interesting to see just what the teabag nut jobs do when, instead of criticising from the sidelines (which is so easy to do), they actually have work to do.<br /><br />I heard last night, or this morning, someone say that the reason he stood was to deny Ms Pelosi her job.<br /><br />That's fine tonight and for the next few weeks while the Republican's celebrate their victory.<br />It may be a little different in January when the spotlight falls on them.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com