tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post6811083550123542827..comments2023-12-20T19:39:29.865+00:00Comments on Munguin's Republic: In which Tris ponders the purpose of the House of Peers and wonders at the politics behind the benighted deknightedMunguinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16475165830302054002noreply@blogger.comBlogger31125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post-25782518693706005422012-02-03T02:31:31.038+00:002012-02-03T02:31:31.038+00:00Danny -
They are sacrificing Goodwin in order to ...Danny -<br /><br />They are sacrificing Goodwin in order to create some rabid headlines about Alex Salmond's endorsement of him.<br /><br />Mind you, Eck endorsed him when RBS was generally accepted to be doing well for the "country". As Lord McConnell, Darling and Broon the Invisible obviously agreed.Barney Thomsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00438037043769240141noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post-5761236129401965702012-02-02T12:52:03.859+00:002012-02-02T12:52:03.859+00:00Well, actually it happened quite recently, Danny, ...Well, actually it happened quite recently, Danny, when aforementioned Hanningfield who had to endure standing in the dock where before him had stood common people. <br /><br />And when some of the scapegoats for the wholesale thievery that was going on in the Commons were charged, they actually thought that THEY should be able to be tried by the Commons under the English Bill of Rights. They were disabused of this notion.<br /><br />Then when they turned up in court, they asked the magistrate if they could be excused from standing in the dock where common or garden criminals stood. He refused, presumably on the grounds that they WERE common or garden criminals.<br /><br />Some people are so far up their own backsides, they are only recognisable by the soles of their shoes.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post-36711055456057049312012-02-01T23:07:59.889+00:002012-02-01T23:07:59.889+00:00Hi Tris,
What HAS Britain come to when a Peer of ...Hi Tris,<br /><br />What HAS Britain come to when a Peer of the Realm must endure trial in the same court as commoners?! I just checked Wiki about the Peter Wimsey trial. The Sayers' novel "Clouds of Witness" was published in 1926, and had Lord Peter's elder brother the Duke of Denver charged with murder and tried by the Lords.<br /><br />As for Formerly Sir Fred and Cameron's "populist nonsense," is it worthy of note that the he was an executive with "Royal Bank of Scotland" and not with a Bank of....oh say.....England?Dannyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14450203101640592230noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post-13899189151198359522012-02-01T22:45:01.581+00:002012-02-01T22:45:01.581+00:00Danny: From Wikipedia...
.... the House of Lords ...Danny: From Wikipedia...<br /><br />.... the House of Lords was once the court that tried peers charged with high treason or felony. The House would be presided over not by the Lord Chancellor, but by the Lord High Steward, an official especially appointed for the occasion of the trial. If Parliament was not in session, then peers could be tried in a separate court, known as the Lord High Steward's Court. Only peers, their wives, and their widows (unless remarried) were entitled to trials in the House of Lords or the Lord High Steward's Court; the Lords Spiritual were tried in Ecclesiastical Courts. In 1948, the right of peers to be tried in such special courts was abolished; now, they are tried in the regular courts. The last such trial in the House was of Edward Southwell Russell, 26th Baron de Clifford in 1935.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post-78839580941480756322012-02-01T22:40:23.228+00:002012-02-01T22:40:23.228+00:00My researches tell me, Wolfie, that silk costs aro...My researches tell me, Wolfie, that silk costs around £70 a yard, so we could have a whip round (don't tell George Osborne) and see what we can raise. God knows it's in a good cause.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post-9402638835661192752012-02-01T22:36:37.467+00:002012-02-01T22:36:37.467+00:00Yep, Danny, I look forward to a list of some 3,000...Yep, Danny, I look forward to a list of some 3,000 titled people who will be losing their gongs and associated bits and pieces because of the precedent set by this piece of populist nonsense by Cameron.<br /><br />One who springs immediately to mind would be SIR Marc Thatcher, who seems to have been aiding and abetting a coup in Equatorial Guinea.<br /><br />Of course he didn't actually do anything to "earn" his knighthood. Mrs Thatcher gave it to her husband for... erm... uh.... erm... well, anyway, moving swiftly on, she made sure it was an hereditary title (although by that time hereditary titles were only ever given to royalty), because she knew the little tosser would never amount to anything,or maybe by that time she imagined that she WAS royalty. So there he is: SIR Murk Thatcher II of Coups are Us (get your helicopters here).<br /><br />There are any number of disreputable peers who come out of prison and turn up on the red benches the next day greedy for their £300+ money and the cheap drink. Ordinary criminals have to make an appointment with the Jobcentre for a few weeks away, possibly why so many of them return to crime, having nothing to live on in the interim.<br /><br />Arsonist Mike, Lord Invergowrie (as referred to above by the Wolf man) comes to mind, and novelist Lord Archer or Wrinkles, the celebrated novelist, who lied his backside off in court about something to do with women or tarts he was seeing ... or something of that nature.<br /><br />Then there are all the thieving toe rags that had their greedy snouts in the swill until they were outed by journalists a couple of years ago. <br /><br />Of course only one of them actually went to prison and then only for a matter of days. (He's awaiting trial on more theft charges at the moment). But he is still The Noble (oh please, if ever a word ceased to mean anything at all) Lord Hanningfield and should be addressed respectfully as My Lord (except when he is wearing a suit with arrows on it, when he should just be bowed to).<br /><br />This is such a joke of a country, so it is, with a complete joke of a PR man...sorry, I mean prime minister.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post-91089261027011199432012-02-01T22:35:36.532+00:002012-02-01T22:35:36.532+00:00Hey Lupus, that silk rope thingy is cool. I wonder...Hey Lupus, that silk rope thingy is cool. I wonder when the Lords last sat as a legal body. I seem to remember that in one of the novels, Lord Peter Wimsey's brother was tried for murder by the Lords.Dannyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14450203101640592230noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post-35026906717594472332012-02-01T22:26:53.752+00:002012-02-01T22:26:53.752+00:00Danny
Peers if charged with a serious criminal of...Danny<br /><br />Peers if charged with a serious criminal offence can elect to be tried by their "peers" and if found guilty of murder, and sentenced to be hanged, can ask for a silk rope for the drop.<br /><br />I wonder how many lamp posts are in Westminster around Westmidden and how much an 6 foot length of silk costs.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post-73393829070897133892012-02-01T22:15:36.616+00:002012-02-01T22:15:36.616+00:00Well I'm really amazed about this. I had no id...Well I'm really amazed about this. I had no idea that a Knighthood could be revoked for anything less than criminal misconduct. I'm even somewhat surprised that a certain modest level of actual criminality would not be tolerated. Some time ago I recall that we established that Her Majesty's majesty would likely remain intact even if she went off her nut and dispatched Philip with a sharp kitchen utensil. What with the law and courts being "hers" of course. And I seem to remember that some time back a peer of the realm was languishing in an American prison. Of course royalists always did have it rough here in the states.<br /><br />Anyway, if malfeasance and misfeasance in your field of endeavor is suddenly to disqualify you for honours and titles, surely the ranks of sirs, dames, lordships, and ladyships will be thinned considerably. But it IS after all a way to impose punishment without actually punishing anybody. In the states, business executives who bring down companies and destroy the lives of workers can only be paid millions of dollars to cancel their employment contracts and go away. No punishment short of a prison sentence is available.Dannyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14450203101640592230noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post-50582531854762242872012-02-01T20:49:37.168+00:002012-02-01T20:49:37.168+00:00Hmmm... how embarrassing CH...
"Mr McConnell...Hmmm... how embarrassing CH...<br /><br />"Mr McConnell hailed the new headquarters - which will house 3250 staff - as a symbol of Scotland's ambitions.<br /><br />"He said: 'Building world-class Scottish companies that are competitive across global markets is a central part of our strategy for developing a modern and prosperous Scottish economy.<br /><br />" 'The Royal Bank of Scotland is a perfect realisation of that ambition.<br /><br />" 'Their commitment to a headquarters in Scotland confirms that we are creating the right business environment to attract and retain the headquarters of globally successful companies."<br /><br />I see that Darling Alistair was there as SOS. So he must have been happy with their performance back then.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post-7906622338299259282012-02-01T20:44:56.167+00:002012-02-01T20:44:56.167+00:00I see your point about things being comfortingly r...I see your point about things being comfortingly reassuring, Dubs, but an upper chamber would cost a lot more than just having one expanded one. And the additional responsibilities of ministerial office would be hard to split between two houses, given the necessity to have government representatives for each department in both houses. <br /><br />It works (if not brilliantly) in England, but they have 650 people in one place and it seems like thousands in the other, although I'm sure it's only about 850 at the moment.<br /><br />I'd be happier with one chamber doing all the business.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post-4576350932969191952012-02-01T20:41:02.281+00:002012-02-01T20:41:02.281+00:00What about him Wolfie?
I've no "burning&...What about him Wolfie?<br /><br />I've no "burning" desire to involve him in anything.<br /><br />(Although, in fairness to the man, I remember John Brownlie [who knows him] telling me that he wasn't a bad bloke...when he was sober!)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post-12777380016570346692012-02-01T20:39:33.370+00:002012-02-01T20:39:33.370+00:00Well Doug, you'd thought as far as finding out...Well Doug, you'd thought as far as finding out the size of the parliaments of our neighbours, which is more than I'd done.<br /><br />Norway is the most like us, in terms of population, so I guess that that makes sense. <br /><br />They manage to find sufficient people to make up their government from that. I'd go quite happily with that.<br /><br />I think in fairness that, although parliamentarians haven't got a great name, people would understand that if you are taking on a whole new set of responsibilities, you need ministers to cover these areas, and the MSPs themselves will have more work to do; more legislation, and more constituency work.<br /><br />We also would lose 59 seats at Westminster, so there would actually be a reduction in the costs...given we would only be adding 401 MSPs.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post-72784441516668288492012-02-01T20:32:10.224+00:002012-02-01T20:32:10.224+00:00Yes Munbguin. The problem with the Lords is that t...Yes Munbguin. The problem with the Lords is that they are appointed for life, so there is a tendency for them to be elderly.<br /><br />Nothing, of course wrong with some elderly heads to rethink the policies of the young turks (like Dennis Skinner) in the Commons. (OK that was a joke).<br /><br />But what is the point if the wise counsel of these "elders" is ignored and the government does what it was going to do anyway. <br /><br />Seems a load of pointless money wasting, which when we are tightening the belts and everyone, all the decent hard working families up and down the country, are in it together, that they waste all that money getting nowhere. <br /><br />And, we agree on Freddy's unkighting, or deknighting, and possibly igknighting... <br /><br />Cameron doing his usual stupid thinking after he does the acting. This time he can't climb down or do a u-turn. The Queen is hardly likely to want to reknight the blokey.<br /><br />Lordy but how she must shake her experienced head in complete bemusement at the antics of her British government.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post-39739681268105523642012-02-01T20:02:30.894+00:002012-02-01T20:02:30.894+00:00Queen opens £350m bank HQ
Four RAF Tornados flew ...<a href="http://www.scotsman.com/news/queen_opens_163_350m_bank_hq_1_1068404?showResult=true&pollContentId=7.32167" rel="nofollow">Queen opens £350m bank HQ</a><br /><br /><i>Four RAF Tornados flew overhead at 11am as she declared the massive complex open, in front of First Minister Jack McConnell and the bank's group chairman Sir George Mathewson.</i>cynicalHighlanderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06034325908473006163noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post-54672088343421718742012-02-01T19:34:17.316+00:002012-02-01T19:34:17.316+00:00Christ on a bike, I agree with Dean. I better go a...Christ on a bike, I agree with Dean. I better go and lie down.<br /><br />Daily Mail knee jerk reaction often comes back to bite people up the bum.Dubbiesidehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14351210091827242674noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post-62376068955081579082012-02-01T19:30:18.450+00:002012-02-01T19:30:18.450+00:00Doug
Instead of adding 41 MSPs to the Holyrood pa...Doug<br /><br />Instead of adding 41 MSPs to the Holyrood parliament, why not have 40 in an elevated house similar to the American system, where they have 100 senators for their huge population.<br /><br />The second house could be elected every four years half way through the Holyrood cycle. No patronage needed wholly elected.<br /><br />It would be no more democratic that your 41 extra MSPs but as it would be nearer the two legislature system most people are familiar with it could be more reassuring to the general public.<br /><br />Niko<br /><br />You never named the politicians who gave Fred his knighthood, I wonder why? Does wee Jack and Gordon Brown sound familiar?Dubbiesidehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14351210091827242674noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post-30055465683040712232012-02-01T17:11:56.947+00:002012-02-01T17:11:56.947+00:00What about Lord Swann Vestas of the Hotel?What about Lord Swann Vestas of the Hotel?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post-82976504876540392572012-02-01T16:45:17.422+00:002012-02-01T16:45:17.422+00:00Well, I don't know about putting TOO much thou...Well, I don't know about putting TOO much thought into the numbers Holyrood really requires - just a quick look at Wikipedia!<br /><br />Norway: 169<br />Denmark: 179<br />Finland: 200<br />Sweden: 349<br /><br />But then, Sweden is a good few million people bigger than the rest, and us. If Norway can manage with 169, it sounds right to me. That would be an increase of almost a third. If people moan about it, we just say "well it's either that or a whole new upper chamber" - they'll soon pipe down!Doug Danielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15017218581660887134noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post-46685971471768650242012-02-01T15:24:00.150+00:002012-02-01T15:24:00.150+00:00What is the point of just short of a thousand so c...What is the point of just short of a thousand so called “experts” (really a load of doddering old fools and party placemen) all trousering expenses? Nick and David tell us one minute how much we need them and how good they are but as soon as they show any independence they are the biggest load of idiots who don’t know what they are doing and need to be put right. Once again it seems that they think we zip up the back and will accept any old incredible rubbish as fact if they premise it with “let’s be clear....” even if it totally contradicts what they said and did yesterday!!<br /><br /><br />I think Fred should get to keep his knighthood. He was given it in all good faith in 2005 when things were going oh so well and nobody thought he was doing a bad job: not the British Government; not the FSA; not the shareholders; not the board of directors; not Alex Salmond and certainly not St Vince of Cable. This is just rank tokenism at its very worst just as bonus season is coming round again.Munguinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16475165830302054002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post-20020146780465248022012-02-01T14:55:48.048+00:002012-02-01T14:55:48.048+00:00Yep. Agreed, DeanYep. Agreed, DeanAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post-88461032802550117722012-02-01T11:38:35.005+00:002012-02-01T11:38:35.005+00:00Fred the Shred has been made a scapegoat, which is...Fred the Shred has been made a scapegoat, which is even more pathetic than him having the title.Dean MacKinnon-Thomsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08221192592535723681noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post-76354500155765714732012-02-01T08:38:31.206+00:002012-02-01T08:38:31.206+00:00Oh yes, Doug. With no retirement home, and nowhere...Oh yes, Doug. With no retirement home, and nowhere else to put those who have done favours, the party whipping system would have to rely upon the threat to reveal "black book" secrets to wives and constituency chairmen, or worse, The Daily Mail.<br /><br />Of course it would still be effective, because most have something to hide, but it would narrow the options nonetheless. A carrot is safer than a stick.<br /><br />And where would all these codgers go to write their memoires if the HoL shut down?<br /><br />And why would most of them join up in the first place if they couldn't see themselves 30 years on, in red with some lower order saying: "You rang, M'lord?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post-57174151055466411002012-02-01T08:31:23.835+00:002012-02-01T08:31:23.835+00:00Hi Doug,
Good to see you back at Munguin's Re...Hi Doug,<br /><br />Good to see you back at Munguin's Republic.<br /><br />There are some things you just can't "legislate" for...like a PR system that produces a majority! :)<br /><br />But that is a real rarity and unlikely to happen again... <br /><br />I agree too that a chamber of MSPs that was designed to cope with maybe half the work of government is not suitable for one that has to take on tax raising and foreign affairs, defence and social security/pensions and more besides. Not enough people to provide ministers and Cabinet Secretaries, and still have decent scrutiny at 129. I hope they can adapt the chamber though! I'd not care to see the expense of a new building falling on our new country.<br /><br />I'll not argue with your figure of 170 as I hadn't, until you mentioned it, given it any thought, and you clearly have.<br /><br />I certainly wouldn't be looking for an upper house in the new Scotland.<br /><br />I think (as a passing thought) that some of our new structures, because we would have to create them, would remain British, because as James always points out, correctly, we are, and will remain British, by virtue of our geographical situation as part of the British Isles.<br /><br />But we we could do worse than look to the Nordic countries for patterns that are successful. I'd like to see us develop much stronger ties with Norway, The Faeroe Islands, Greenland, Iceland, Denmark, Sweden, Finland and the Baltic states.<br /><br />As for strong government, I'm not sure that "strong" is the first adjective I want to describe government. "Sensible" would be better; "sound", "intelligent" and "representative are all above "strong". <br /><br />And I don't think that not having a towering majority (so you can't push through whatever you want, regardless of how stupid it may be) makes you weak. Often quite the reverse. <br /><br />Mrs Thatcher and those since, have treated the strength of government with such reverence that it has become the standard by which "good" government has been judged here.<br /><br />It doesn't take a genius to see that the "strong" governance of the UK has hardly rendered it in a better situation than the comparatively "weak" governance of, say Germany with its federal system and coalition governments. Angela Merkel is still managing to take the lead in Europe.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post-2401054654093746762012-01-31T23:38:50.908+00:002012-01-31T23:38:50.908+00:00If there was no House of Lords the Labour party ca...If there was no House of Lords the Labour party career path would be sadly truncated.<br /><br />No attendance allowance, no flunkeys serving tea, no ermine robes, no title and a decent club in London too look forward to at the end of their service to the British Establishment.<br /><br />The Labour party would be bereft.<br /><br />Then again so would be their chums in the Tories and the Lib-Dems.DougtheDughttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02952281599715356995noreply@blogger.com