tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post5270879071173519936..comments2023-12-20T19:39:29.865+00:00Comments on Munguin's Republic: WELL DONE MARGO: WHY SHOULD DIGNITY BE ONLY FOR THE RICH?Munguinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16475165830302054002noreply@blogger.comBlogger29125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post-68745890049222716122010-01-23T23:15:12.239+00:002010-01-23T23:15:12.239+00:00Tris, munguin,
No, I was not aware of that fact. ...Tris, munguin,<br /><br />No, I was not aware of that fact. However that was a different time and era. I would content the kirk has lost much of its relevence since then. Not least when it stood [wrongly] behind section 28 in the late 90s [alongside my side sadly. What can I say, the long dark shadow of Maggie]Dean MacKinnon-Thomsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08221192592535723681noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post-49564535016590421652010-01-23T21:16:23.663+00:002010-01-23T21:16:23.663+00:00Yes Sophia, that was original thought.
I do see t...Yes Sophia, that was original thought.<br /><br />I do see the arguments that people may feel obliged to die to stop being a burden..... but, if they feel they are a burden, and that weighs heavily with them, is that not the right thing for THEM to do...? <br /><br />For me it's all about human life amd its importance.... and I'm not that sure it IS terribly important, not any more so than the life of a dog, or a penguin or a bear or a donkey, a lion, a hippo. If it were, perhaps god or nature would have spared us some of the suffering of death, or spared us death altogether....Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post-90342916808510970072010-01-23T18:11:55.088+00:002010-01-23T18:11:55.088+00:00Thank the Lord for Margo! She is trying to bring a...Thank the Lord for Margo! She is trying to bring a human touch to the legislation around death. Humanity contains a huge diversity of views on death and our law should reflect that. I want to die in Scotland, and if I do have any control over my death when it comes, I wish to exert that control toward making my own death dignified and peaceful, for me and my loved ones.<br /><br />She only wants to allow a choice, not force a change on anyone.Sophia Panglosshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10089164117446635962noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post-8328577608000763472010-01-23T12:32:07.896+00:002010-01-23T12:32:07.896+00:00I don't think Dean, that there is any doubt, t...I don't think Dean, that there is any doubt, that a Bill passed would have to make it very clear that the killing of a patient would be a last resort.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post-30194870415086942192010-01-23T12:31:07.142+00:002010-01-23T12:31:07.142+00:00Munguin I'd forgotten about that. It is true, ...Munguin I'd forgotten about that. It is true, despite the English passing the legislation, it could not be enacted for Scotland because the Church interfered.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post-74521912239438998682010-01-23T12:29:44.808+00:002010-01-23T12:29:44.808+00:00Ew er Buggar....Ew er Buggar....Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post-80511142300231150692010-01-23T12:29:19.738+00:002010-01-23T12:29:19.738+00:00George:
If you are in agony, and there is no hope...George:<br /><br />If you are in agony, and there is no hope whatsoever for you of getting better; if you have to have your personal body functions overseen and assisted by a nurse, if you cannot eat, or talk.... etc, don't you think that your life would be made better by ending it...?<br /><br />It is I know, a matter of personal interpretation.<br /><br />I repeat Margo isn't doing it for herself. She can easily afford to go to Switzerland.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post-25070965015554800002010-01-23T11:55:12.560+00:002010-01-23T11:55:12.560+00:00Dear All
Here is a question for Margo MacDonald.
...Dear All<br /><br />Here is a question for Margo MacDonald.<br /><br />Does her legal suicide bill invalidate people's life insurance policy?<br /><br />MacDonald is unfit for public office and should resign.<br /><br />Public office is all about making people's life better.<br /><br />Yours sincerely<br /><br />George Laird<br />The Campaign for Human Rights at Glasgow UniversityG Lairdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07634338820731652821noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post-91919378507509715792010-01-23T10:21:11.433+00:002010-01-23T10:21:11.433+00:00Dean, are you aware that the 1967 legislation perm...Dean, are you aware that the 1967 legislation permitting homosexuality was not passed in Scotland until 1980 due to the influence of the church?Munguinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16475165830302054002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post-41274827664605799792010-01-23T08:09:39.342+00:002010-01-23T08:09:39.342+00:00Could you two not just get a room?Could you two not just get a room?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post-66550279515668588332010-01-23T00:55:26.138+00:002010-01-23T00:55:26.138+00:00This is certainly an emotionally charged issue. Th...This is certainly an emotionally charged issue. This can make it more difficult to have moderate, reasonable and sensible debates in Holyrood parliament, as our MSPs aren't imune to emotive arguments themselves, nor are they imune to emotional responses. <br /><br />Personally this is very tough, as it will for most people boil down to whether or not it is ethical/moral.<br /><br />But for me, as I say it is more of a technical issue of implimentability where I see the biggest obsticle. As I see no problem with the principal of assisted suicide persay, depending on a number of caveats- not least the implications to the medical profession [which as I say should still principally focus on palliative care, and life preservation.]Dean MacKinnon-Thomsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08221192592535723681noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post-69794096426323134882010-01-23T00:43:01.366+00:002010-01-23T00:43:01.366+00:00Oh Anon:
I did miss these changes. I need to be m...Oh Anon:<br /><br />I did miss these changes. I need to be more up to date before shooting my mouth off.<br /><br />I apologise. I need to read up on this.<br /><br />Sorry matey..<br /><br />TrisAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post-7542623508229710782010-01-23T00:10:48.288+00:002010-01-23T00:10:48.288+00:00Tris
No you're wrong there.
The law in Scotlan...Tris<br />No you're wrong there.<br />The law in Scotland has moved on quite far. Maybe you missed all the changes ?It changed about 3 years ago.<br />You can decide from a whole menu of things where you want to be switched off.<br />Mine is where I can no longer wipe my own arse and there is no possibiliity of improvement.<br />Well not exactly. But where my brain and motor functions won't improve and I will be unable to feed or move or keep myself clean without a permanent helper.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post-91104333359526820722010-01-22T23:40:49.859+00:002010-01-22T23:40:49.859+00:00Well, I am fine with that Anon.
But that's on...Well, I am fine with that Anon.<br /><br />But that's only used if you are on Life Support. In fact if you are dead but for a machine keeping you alive.<br /><br />But suppose that you contract (heaven forbid) Motor Neurone and in the end you can only blink. They can't turn off the machinery then, and you could live for 40 years only able to blink....Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post-79699657041605658062010-01-22T23:36:33.388+00:002010-01-22T23:36:33.388+00:00Tris
The living will means that your family no lon...Tris<br />The living will means that your family no longer have to worry. Their fear of turning off your life support is cancelled out by your request to be turned off.<br />They are able to see in black and white in your living will your true thoughts on the matter. It avoids any doubt and gives them a feeling of warmth knowing that they carried out your wishes.<br />They can say goodbye to you without any ambiguity or worry about whether they did the right thing.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post-9713924318022326212010-01-22T23:18:06.507+00:002010-01-22T23:18:06.507+00:00I wouldn't trust the state, but equally I woul...I wouldn't trust the state, but equally I wouldn't trust myself to be able to do it right. I'd also not want my family or friends to have to be involved....<br /><br />I guess we need to differ on this one Anon....Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post-48522234390752557762010-01-22T23:15:52.411+00:002010-01-22T23:15:52.411+00:00Tris
I think it all boils down to whether or not y...Tris<br />I think it all boils down to whether or not you trust the state to do the right thing. Personally I don't so would always try and limit the states ability to put me to sleep or to order the death penalty in a court of law.<br />There's no need to die in agony. I've done a living will and want to be terminated if I'm incapable of living under my own steam. My relatives now have that power. Hopefully I won't have to use them and will get a heads up before it gets that bad and I can do myself in first.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post-14975602523080193792010-01-22T22:50:07.258+00:002010-01-22T22:50:07.258+00:00Guys... I'm not saying it would be easy, but I...Guys... I'm not saying it would be easy, but I think it would be good to move forward and see what we can do.<br /><br />It's a bit primitive to have people dying in agony....<br /><br />The idea of doing it oneself is rather naive I think Anon. It supposes an ability to do it, to get it right, not to mess it up, and not to involve anyone else. OK, if you have the power of your legs maybe... but what if it all goes wrong....?<br /><br />Why should someone have to do that kind of thing? We have choices all through our lives; we should have a choice to end it.<br /><br />Of course, people who do not want to avail themselves of it... needn’tAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post-78935000374824323672010-01-22T21:52:37.572+00:002010-01-22T21:52:37.572+00:00Dean
Yes "unplanned for consequences".
I...Dean<br />Yes "unplanned for consequences".<br />It's a certainty that any plans for state sanctioned suicide would be quickly extended to people who were a burden on society feeling obliged to do the decent thing and take a few pills.<br />This is borne out by the abortion laws. Initially brought in to allow abortion in exceptional circumstances, abortion is now nothing more than another form of contraception.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post-63433192430086028432010-01-22T21:18:07.523+00:002010-01-22T21:18:07.523+00:00Just how seedy are the Switzerland clinics?
I do ...Just how seedy are the Switzerland clinics?<br /><br />I do know that there is a very active domestic political debate going on there about the suitability of assisted suicide. So even in Switz. its not a cut and dry case.<br /><br />But Anon does raise a good point- regulation.<br /><br />Beyond the unworkability of this bill in terms of implimentation, there is the question of regulatory requirements. Suddenly a quiet and dignified death becomes an administrative machine, where the leap into costs, productivity and cost-benefit analyses could take over. Precious little dignity in a death industry frankly.<br /><br />My point is merely about the sheer unimplimentable nature of this idea, not to mention the risky possible unplanned for consequences. MacMillan warned us about events, lets keep that in mind.Dean MacKinnon-Thomsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08221192592535723681noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post-2903884201189993512010-01-22T20:58:36.214+00:002010-01-22T20:58:36.214+00:00Tris
Obviously "jump under a bus" was j...Tris<br />Obviously "jump under a bus" was just a euphimism for going off quietly and dying.<br />My preferred option would be to take up a keen interest in sea angling and get accidentally washed off of the rocks.<br />My relatives could say that I had died doing something I loved and I could go whenever I wanted avoiding the stigma of suicide.<br />People unable to get to some rocks could save up their pills and enjoy a wee dram with the pill collection while listening to Eddi Reader sing Aye Fond Kiss.<br />Must be many other easy ways to go which avoid state intervention or trips to some seedy clinic in Switzerland.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post-16482959620318823232010-01-22T20:35:19.573+00:002010-01-22T20:35:19.573+00:00Anon:
I have to disagree with you on every aspect...Anon:<br /><br />I have to disagree with you on every aspect of that. It is undignified and criminal to jump under a bus, and cause the bus driver to be responsible for your death, and traumatise/injure/kill the passengers.<br /><br />There is dignity in a quiet death. <br /><br />My relatives can take a running jump for anything I will leave.<br /><br />I know I can go to Switzerland, so does Margo. There are those who can't, and anyway, I'd like to die in Scotland or France... not Zurich.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post-59521582371624639932010-01-22T20:22:37.435+00:002010-01-22T20:22:37.435+00:00Tris
I'd never trust the state to put me to sl...Tris<br />I'd never trust the state to put me to sleep and then explain to the relatives that it was my fondest wishes.<br />If Margo had a pair then she would jump under a bus rather than ask the state to let her die peacefully and with dignity. There's no dignity in death. You die and rot. End of.<br /> She must know that her bill is a charter for our nieces and nephews to sit waiting for us to die. Pleading for us with their eyes to do the decent thing and give them a few bob before we pop our clogs. Why waste money on expensive homes ? Sitting googah watching the one show. Just finish it and hand over the dosh you saddo.<br />I think we should keep things the way they are.<br />Brave folk jump under a bus / dive into the ocean etc.<br />Cowards fight for every last breath.<br />Relatives who help people to die in Switzerland ignored.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post-74403448559876823302010-01-22T20:05:38.877+00:002010-01-22T20:05:38.877+00:00Anon: I think we all know you can't trust the ...Anon: I think we all know you can't trust the state. I personally find it pretty hard to believe anything that the tax office, or the DWP, or any of them say. Clearly the War Office (which is what it is now... nothing at all to do with Defence) lie through their teeth.<br /><br />As for being put down... well, yes, if you are unable to afford a private doctor, you will have to rely on a state paid one to tell you whether you can been put out of your misery or not.<br /><br />I can't think of a way round that.....Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post-33506638566931416592010-01-22T20:01:38.764+00:002010-01-22T20:01:38.764+00:00It's not just 'not graceful' Dean. In ...It's not just 'not graceful' Dean. In some cases, it is horrific, as you may have seen.<br /><br />However, I totally agree with you that the implimentation of anything like that will be difficult.<br /><br />Howewver, one of the most civilised nations on earth, Switzerland, has managed to organise it. It may be that Scotland (also extremely civilised) will be able to do that too.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com