tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post7748816555865569909..comments2023-12-20T19:39:29.865+00:00Comments on Munguin's Republic: NOW THE TORIES BACK MINIMUM PRICING FOR BOOZEMunguinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16475165830302054002noreply@blogger.comBlogger37125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post-85075293484757716622010-01-24T19:53:16.310+00:002010-01-24T19:53:16.310+00:00Spot on there Munguin.Spot on there Munguin.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post-22824918467715717912010-01-23T23:53:00.017+00:002010-01-23T23:53:00.017+00:00Please explain how doubling VAT makes small busine...Please explain how doubling VAT makes small businesses more active or made the UK more attractive (to who?). <br /><br />Doubling VAT on radios makes them more expensive to everybody, however, a millionaire does not need more of them than an old age pensioner, therefore, the tax is a greater burden to the pensioner. The pensioner does not have an income and therefore pays no income tax so reducing the top threshold from say 60% to 50% does not make them any better off. However a millionaire will be considerably better off. Taking 1p off income tax makes every body who pays that tax slightly better off although not a pensioner or a person on a low wage as they don’t earn enough to qualify. In order to reduce the income tax burden it is necessary to increase the burden elsewhere to compensate and bring in the money the exchequer needs to pay the countries bills. Mrs Thatcher was well aware of how unfair this all was but she did it because the rich voted for her and the poor voted for Jim Callaghan.Munguinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16475165830302054002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post-82415946873843862712010-01-23T23:10:47.877+00:002010-01-23T23:10:47.877+00:00Munguin,
You are entitled to your memory of Heath...Munguin,<br /><br />You are entitled to your memory of Heath, and dare I say it- you have the advantage on me as you can remember him. I can only read and watch him through the lens of history.<br /><br />But as to the tax shift, it is more than as Tris [explains well]. It also meant that the UK looked more attractive- it is not cooincidence that when Labour tied to squeeze till the pips squeaked the poor paid the price!<br /><br />The key to the shift also made entrepreneurs more active. And these people are not neccessarily [or in most cases] millionaires. These entrepreneurs are small businessmen, employing in their local community. I think enabling their activity at the base of the economy is a good thing.<br /><br />So the tax focus shift was more than the broad principal of people having a right to keep more of their earnings. And income tax hurt many earners who were not millionaires Mungiun. It was simply a regressive way of taxing people.Dean MacKinnon-Thomsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08221192592535723681noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post-46492651795417817582010-01-23T23:03:01.985+00:002010-01-23T23:03:01.985+00:00Tris; she knew exactly what she was doing, cutting...Tris; she knew exactly what she was doing, cutting taxes for the rich and increasing the tax burden on the poor. After all the rich voted for her and the poor did not. There were no accidental consequences.Munguinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16475165830302054002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post-81821852765695134472010-01-23T22:59:42.642+00:002010-01-23T22:59:42.642+00:00I do not see how shifting the tax burden to the po...I do not see how shifting the tax burden to the poor was in any way desirable. Getting rid of the top income tax threshold will directly benefit the rich while reducing income tax will benefit the moderately well off and the comfortable. Doubling VAT effects everyone the same be they pensioners scraping by on the minimum or millionaires. I am trying to think of the numerous benefits you mention but unless you are a millionaire I don’t see them.<br /><br />Strange how I remember Ted Heath as a bumbling idiot totally out of his depth as Prime Minister. I am happy to wait and see if Cameron is any way fair to Scotland, but you will forgive me if I dont hold my breath or indeed anything in anticipation.Munguinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16475165830302054002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post-9091408860548778722010-01-23T22:50:42.590+00:002010-01-23T22:50:42.590+00:00Niko:
There's a site too much greed!Niko:<br /><br />There's a site too much greed!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post-90318374589431187942010-01-23T22:49:43.844+00:002010-01-23T22:49:43.844+00:00Well yeah Dean, of course it was... It was bad jud...Well yeah Dean, of course it was... It was bad judgement, in that she made no adjustment for the very poor.<br /><br />Essentialy I can see an argument that says that as much of what you earn should be yours and that it you decide to spend none of it, then you should be required to pay as little tax as possible. But, one of the big problems is that I doubt Thatcher even considered that there were people who didn't pay income tax. She just didn't know that there were people THAT poor.<br /><br />She should have .... she was THEIR prime minister too, and she knew a lot about their problems when she was criticising Jim Callagnhan.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post-43394347409640015912010-01-23T22:44:29.144+00:002010-01-23T22:44:29.144+00:00Thatcher was not known for her sympathy and open m...Thatcher was not known for her sympathy and open mindedness was she Tris!<br /><br />But I stand by the shift in the tax system as I said. If VAT shot up under maggie, then that is a matter for the relative judgement [or non-judgement] of the government of the day surely?Dean MacKinnon-Thomsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08221192592535723681noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post-45408423179989245662010-01-23T22:40:07.708+00:002010-01-23T22:40:07.708+00:00Dean:
Cameron, answering questions on his intenti...Dean:<br /><br />Cameron, answering questions on his intentions for Calman, said that there would be no time for constitutional change in the first Tory government. All his time, energy and efforts would be taken up with trying to put right the economic mismangement of Labour....<br /><br />As for VAT doubling, one of its most horrific outcomes was that pensioners, who paid no income tax, (and other very very poor people)simply found that what they bought became dearer, without there being any corresponding increase in their income.<br /><br />Unintended consequences it may have been, but you would have thought, given Mrs Thatcher's proclaimed concern for pensioners, and her anger at the way Labour had treated them, that she might have foreseen this small problem....<br /><br />It was her job to ensure fairness for all the people...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post-78835820301084253972010-01-23T22:33:05.275+00:002010-01-23T22:33:05.275+00:00And Munguin,
I disagree with your view that Camer...And Munguin,<br /><br />I disagree with your view that Cameron wil tax constitional reform off the agenda. I think precisely the opposite. <br /><br />Lets see who is right!Dean MacKinnon-Thomsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08221192592535723681noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post-50305242076288103792010-01-23T22:32:04.679+00:002010-01-23T22:32:04.679+00:00Munguin,
Sorry but even a One Nationist like me t...Munguin,<br /><br />Sorry but even a One Nationist like me thoroughly approved of the Howe tax shift. By moving the bulk of taxation from income tax to indirect taxation it brought numerous benefits.<br /><br />It was actually somethin Heath also wanted to do, and he is unarguably a progressive Prime Minister and Tory. So, while the side effect may be that indirect taxation could be used as a form of social engineering, I am positive that was not the rationale for the shift in tax emphasis by Thatcher's regime, it just made much more economic sense.<br />The law of unintended consequences I think applies!Dean MacKinnon-Thomsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08221192592535723681noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post-72599231939365642062010-01-23T22:05:15.741+00:002010-01-23T22:05:15.741+00:00Tris we are going to be getting a new one a Camero...Tris we are going to be getting a new one a Cameron, a happy clapping Bulingdon from Notting Hill who is everything to everybody and mummy is related to the Queen. Nepotism will be back on the agenda, constitutional reform for Scotland will be off it.Munguinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16475165830302054002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post-64498260277130520722010-01-23T21:58:16.913+00:002010-01-23T21:58:16.913+00:00Dean the point is that Maggie talked a good talk b...Dean the point is that Maggie talked a good talk but was still happy to socially engineer peoples lives using the tax system by doubling VAT, an iniquitous move intended to get the poor to pay for other tax breaks for the rich.Munguinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16475165830302054002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post-28155548785351109822010-01-23T21:45:02.695+00:002010-01-23T21:45:02.695+00:00Tris
we live in a capitalist dominated world tha...Tris<br /><br />we live in a capitalist dominated world thats the problem.Nikostratoshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06581441869560921339noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post-39827304948528681732010-01-23T21:19:25.143+00:002010-01-23T21:19:25.143+00:00At least on Saturday night they don't have to ...At least on Saturday night they don't have to pick their way through prostrate bodies though Niko.<br /><br />Many people seem to need some sort of drug to get them through life... not just here. It's pretty sad.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post-37283759337133750372010-01-23T21:10:44.077+00:002010-01-23T21:10:44.077+00:00Iran has one of the biggest drug use problems in t...Iran has one of the biggest drug use problems in the world and that in an Islamic society which prohibits alcohol.<br /><br />Mind an Iranian friend once said when i mentioned no alcohol in Iran 'Don't be silly it is just much more expensive but you can still get some'Nikostratoshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06581441869560921339noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post-64262304129182248202010-01-23T21:10:19.461+00:002010-01-23T21:10:19.461+00:00Dean: One of the questions that will have to be an...Dean: One of the questions that will have to be answered is, what kind of Tory are we going to have. Your kind is fine; the other kind is downright odious (sorry).<br /><br />Of course government need to impinge on people's lives sometimes. Why on earth would we have them otherwise? I wonder who pulls the strings in the Tory Party. I doubt it's Cameron though. There will be older heads somewhere, probably in the House of Peers, and we shall have to wait to see what kind of government will be loosed on us.....Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post-77821298903433044082010-01-23T21:06:07.368+00:002010-01-23T21:06:07.368+00:00Sophia Sweetheart:
Where on earth have you been.....Sophia Sweetheart:<br /><br />Where on earth have you been... I dunno how many times I asked Munguin, "where's our Sophia?" I said. <br /><br />"Down the pub getting bladdered" he has always replied, and of course I believed him (well, you do with Munguin).<br /><br />Now, what side was I on again?<br /><br />Erm, I dunno. I don't know what to believe or what we can do... I know, I'll just follow you.<br /><br />Lovely to see you again.....Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post-17463135365325026952010-01-23T18:14:24.733+00:002010-01-23T18:14:24.733+00:00"It is just More mixed messages from the Tori..."It is just More mixed messages from the Tories then. I thought that conservatism meant little or no interference in the lives of people."<br /><br />Depends what kind of 'conservative' you mean.<br /><br />Whta you say is true Munguin, in regards to Thatcherism, which is associated with liazze-fair economic liberalism...<br /><br />However you have tories like me, Heath, MacMillan, IDS who all strongly support intervention by government into peoples lives occasionally. The levers of power should be pulled to create more equality of opportunity, and to curb the excesses of "immoral markets" [as IDS says when talking about the cheap booze market]...some conservatives [small c again] are like IDS in believing that the market wasnt the be-all and end-all that maggie cracked it up as.Dean MacKinnon-Thomsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08221192592535723681noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post-36888407914889639312010-01-23T17:56:57.983+00:002010-01-23T17:56:57.983+00:00tris, hello dear, you and me we're a bit the s...tris, hello dear, you and me we're a bit the same on this one. I'm confused too. Like what a Liberal Democratic person must feel all the time.<br /><br />Ye see, I don't think it's fair to use the price alone as a weapon, that's just a wee socialist twinge I get from the old days, when we girls in the Land Army got the same rations whether we were on the tractor or shovelling shit.<br /><br />But if the problem is cheap alcohol, then we should cut back on off-sales licences, particularly in the supermarkets. Alcohol should mostly be consumed on licenced premises, in good old-fashioned pubs with real Landladies that's the way to go if we want some good old Stalinist control over the proles.<br /><br />Ts that what these evil minimum-pricers want to foist on us, the bastards? I don't know...<br /><br />No really, I don't know. Now I don't know what side I'm on. What side are you on again? I'll go wi' you dear, haud ma hand...Sophia Panglosshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10089164117446635962noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post-29059525023879855892010-01-23T15:10:10.053+00:002010-01-23T15:10:10.053+00:00Munguin:
Implementing the existing policy poses, ...Munguin:<br /><br />Implementing the existing policy poses, as you say, many problems. We have gone far too far down the road of accepting drunkenness on the street for laws to be enforced now.<br /><br />I’ve tried to suggest alternatives in some of the posts I’ve made on the subject of drink.<br /><br />A few years ago it was considered cool to drink and drive, although it was illegal. Somehow we have changed that attitude. No one brags about how they drove home off their face any more, but they do brag about how much they drank in the pub, at home, in the park. It seems to be a Scottish thing. You need to be able to drink a lot to be cool.... Somehow we need to make it uncool to be legless. It shouldn’t be that difficult; how disgusting do drunks look? We need to get people onside who kids consider to be role models... If Amy Winehouse and Pete Docherty didn’t fall out of clubs unable to walk, perhaps people to whom they are heros wouldn’t do it either.... We need to get footballers and other sportmen and women on side....No one is going to listen to Annabel Goldie, Iain Gray or Alex Salmond.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post-6857222363092578562010-01-23T14:44:26.434+00:002010-01-23T14:44:26.434+00:00Don’t you think that if it were as easy as impleme...Don’t you think that if it were as easy as implementing existing laws the Labour Government in London, that is very fond of quick fixes, would have done that already and then trumpeted the success from the roof tops? But they haven’t and the reason is because they can’t. Annabel Goldie knows this but she has the luxury of being able to espouse a policy she knows she will never be in a position to implement.<br /><br />We have all heard the reasons why the SNP’s policy wont work and for varying reasons but what we don’t hear is any suggestions that are any better or are any more likely to work. That will be why both the major parties in England are now stealing the SNP’s ideas. And also of course because they have none of their own, Labour because they are tired, moribund and worn out and the Tories because they never really had any other than to get elected.Munguinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16475165830302054002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post-19513065023830239662010-01-23T14:32:57.267+00:002010-01-23T14:32:57.267+00:00Niko:
You make a good point about simply changing...Niko:<br /><br />You make a good point about simply changing drugs. The misery that people live in seems to demand that they find a way of blotting out reality on a regular basis... That's under Labour, the Tories and SNP.... <br /><br />It's bigger than party politics, it seems. I suspect a lot of big business, pressure, and people feeling that the whole system is against them... may be the cause....Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post-75069433174665105712010-01-23T14:05:45.905+00:002010-01-23T14:05:45.905+00:00Dean: I don't think that this is the only answ...Dean: I don't think that this is the only answer... But I wonder how long it will be before the Scottish Tories come on board. Will they dare vote against the SNP when Mr Cameron is pushing it as part of his Broken Britain policies?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post-69445727891890757632010-01-23T14:03:01.786+00:002010-01-23T14:03:01.786+00:00Niko:
Labour has done no better than the Tories. ...Niko:<br /><br />Labour has done no better than the Tories. Poverty is greater than it was 13 years ago. Division between rich and poor is greater than it was and hope at the bottom has all but disappeared.<br /><br />Labour has nothing to crow about matey....Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com