tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post2801042106642403840..comments2023-12-20T19:39:29.865+00:00Comments on Munguin's Republic: A response to my 'Question Time' criticsMunguinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16475165830302054002noreply@blogger.comBlogger27125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post-45776234739438930902013-06-21T15:32:22.402+01:002013-06-21T15:32:22.402+01:00I beg her pardon PP.
Indeed a rose by any other ...I beg her pardon PP. <br /><br />Indeed a rose by any other name....etc...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post-62355079135546448572013-06-21T10:05:39.644+01:002013-06-21T10:05:39.644+01:00It's Ms Lamont; she's actually Mrs Graham....It's Ms Lamont; she's actually Mrs Graham. Hubby is deputy leader of Glasgow council Archie Graham.<br /><br />A rose by any other name would still be pathetic though!panda pawsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post-7364317084239803652013-06-20T13:08:31.950+01:002013-06-20T13:08:31.950+01:00it's not unreasonable to change your political...it's not unreasonable to change your political colours Munguin. I think that Dean's journey from Tory to Labour parties has more to do with Labour moving into Tory territory and Dean standing stock still.<br /><br />The retrospective aspect is rather harder to explain I have to admit.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post-83206586739881854772013-06-20T13:03:22.963+01:002013-06-20T13:03:22.963+01:00All we need to know about the Labour party (as it ...All we need to know about the Labour party (as it is not as it was) is that there is so little difference between it and the Tories that you can’t get a ray of sunshine between them. What attests to that best in the current discussion is that fact that Dean seems to forget that he has seamlessly gone from being a mouthpiece of the Tories to being a mouthpiece of the Labour party. It’s not that long ago that we got list of what the Tories had done for the people and now it’s all a load of bilge about the party of the working man. Talk about living in the past? Dean seems to be going backwards from one nation Toryism and having Harold MacMillan as his political hero to the party of the working man and......well probably Ramsay MacDonald as he was another one that was prepared to change his hat and coat to suit the political expediency on the ground.Munguinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16475165830302054002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post-36967750949112803242013-06-20T12:58:30.007+01:002013-06-20T12:58:30.007+01:00The downside, Dubs, of the Labour years are there ...The downside, Dubs, of the Labour years are there for all to see.<br /><br />Of course we know that in much that the did the Tories would have done the same, but the credit boom and subsequent meltdown of the economy might figure on that list, and the opening up of the City Of London to be the most corrupt financial centre on Earth may also have done little for Mr Ordinary.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post-30106963242889695772013-06-20T11:29:26.560+01:002013-06-20T11:29:26.560+01:00Agreed.
Labour never had any substance, it was al...Agreed.<br /><br />Labour never had any substance, it was all front and it still is. Now though, they're reaping what they've sown, when Sarwar, Bailey & Milliband etc come on telly and open up with a machine-gun rattle of spin and management consultant gibberish, all the cynics they created during the New Labour years just turn off - except Dean it seems - who's still swallowing the cheese cake.<br /><br />Meanwhile, Dean may have inadvertently put his finger on a positive case for the union: Speculation, when a unionist does it - it's fine. When a nationalist does it - its 'meaningless'.<br /><br />Now, its lunch time. I haven't seen a cafeteria menu but I've consulted my psionic tea leaves - the cheese cake is off today.<br /><br />;-)pa_broon74https://www.blogger.com/profile/01915208411019621104noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post-91818483665361029272013-06-20T11:19:49.802+01:002013-06-20T11:19:49.802+01:00Laughable.
Mrs Lamont who thinks that its right t...Laughable.<br /><br />Mrs Lamont who thinks that its right that we have WMDs a few miles from Glasgow; who thinks we are all a load of scroungers and who is cheered by the Tory benches in the Scottish parliament.<br /><br />Bless her. She is pathetic.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post-16607185393990659142013-06-20T11:18:28.584+01:002013-06-20T11:18:28.584+01:00Love that second last paragraph, Pa.
I think they...Love that second last paragraph, Pa.<br /><br />I think they did a lot of good. But they did a lot of harm too.<br /><br />The worst thing in my view, was following that idiot down the path to war against the advice of weapon inspectors, the UN, and British public opinion.<br /><br />But they messed up the reform of the House of Lords, something that had been on their agenda for 100 years! And now we have a house of political appointees including almost everyone who ever had the most junior ministerial position in a Labour government...which means we have some right idiots in our second chamber.<br /><br />As for tax credits...it was simply an admission of failure.<br /><br />It admitted that the tax and wages system was hopelessly out of kilter and that people couldn't afford to live on the system which existed.<br /><br />Companies don't pay enough in wages; the minimum wage is far too low; and tax is paid at far too low a level for the cost of living in the country.<br /><br />In other words; you couldn't get it much more wrong.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post-80227647259701632052013-06-20T11:10:46.557+01:002013-06-20T11:10:46.557+01:00I often wonder that, and once again I wondered whe...I often wonder that, and once again I wondered when Liam's accent was questioned. <br /><br />Jimmy Reid never sounded like he was straight out of Fettes!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post-29061002140107504382013-06-20T11:10:16.641+01:002013-06-20T11:10:16.641+01:00You've answered your own question and been hyp...You've answered your own question and been hypocritical about it.<br /><br />I make no excuses for what the SNP does. On other hand, you with your beloved Labour Party which can do no wrong...pa_broon74https://www.blogger.com/profile/01915208411019621104noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post-62361231791031307012013-06-20T11:06:29.938+01:002013-06-20T11:06:29.938+01:00I'd never deny that Labour has done some good ...I'd never deny that Labour has done some good stuff. You mention some of it.<br /><br />What I was wondering at in publishing this article from Liam, was what has happened to a party that did all these things?<br /><br />What's happened to the party of Keir Hardie that some of its members equate a Glasgow accent with ignorance and stupidity? What has happened that this guy gets a hate storm for not turning up to QT in a suit and tie? What has happened to the labour party that it supports the idea that Blair took the country to war on false information provided by Bush and Cheney?<br /><br />The very fact that two years ago you were a card carrying Tory who found a new home in Labour suggests to me that the party has moved sharply to the right. (I imply no criticism of you for doing that, btw. It is natural and normal to change allegiance from time to time.) Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post-57027831434143650662013-06-20T10:30:19.287+01:002013-06-20T10:30:19.287+01:00Reduced to speculating about motive?
Tell me what...Reduced to speculating about motive? <br />Tell me what do the psionic tea leaves tell you about Big Ecks? <br /><br />Oh, wait, this is all meaningless speculation ... right.Dean MacKinnon-Thomsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08221192592535723681noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post-36661902919412414692013-06-20T08:58:03.863+01:002013-06-20T08:58:03.863+01:00Other than that... John Mclean, James Connolly, Ji...Other than that... John Mclean, James Connolly, Jimmy Reid and Johann Lamont?<br /><br />Mmm... Right you are then...<br /><br />;-)<br /><br /><br /><br />pa_broon74https://www.blogger.com/profile/01915208411019621104noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post-61512516523611635112013-06-20T08:52:34.452+01:002013-06-20T08:52:34.452+01:00If the Labour party did all that (a lot of which t...If the Labour party did all that (a lot of which they found they had to do anyway,) how have they become such unfeeling bastards since then?<br /><br />Points 4 and 8 for example, I'd question their motivation, on the former; they did it because they thought it would kill Scottish Nationalism dead, (it didn't.) And on the latter, PR was put in place as part of that plan, Labour thought they had it sown up, a perpetual coalition between themselves and a pliant junior Libdem party - the reality - they fucked it up so badly with their hubris, the SNP made it an 'undemocratic place' by getting enough votes for a majority. (You've also divided devolution into two separate things - a whiff of Better Together gimcrackery there..)<br /><br />On point 10 - working tax credits - seriously? They are a good thing? People in work earning so little, the government has to give them some of the tax they paid back; at great cost to the same tax payer?<br /><br />On Peers, there may have been less hereditary peers on Labour leaving office but there where a lot more life peers, (537 in 1999 versus 647 in 2010 with 88 hereditary peers still sitting.) The hereditary peers Labour cleared out where all blue nosed aristo's - call me a cynical sally - but it seems to me Tony maybe cleared the H of L's out to make way for his own cronies.<br /><br />Point 7? No, they didn't. If they did, why did circumstances exist that 'shamed' the SNP in to action, if your beloved labour party sorted it out, surely, it wouldn't have been necessary? Labour failed to do anything about it in Scotland.<br /><br />In any case, this isn't 1997 and if I'm being honest Tony Blair's New Labour did do some good but there was always a sting in the tail. Even now, a generation of cynics exist because of New Labour spin, you knew where you stood (and still do) with the Tories - they're just in-your-face bastards. With New Labour you got dog shit dressed up as cheesecake - and no one realised the menu was bullshit till their food arrived.<br /><br />On section 28 (which is important to me also,) Labour did well there, which is why its all the more jarring that they've become so out of touch in recent years.pa_broon74https://www.blogger.com/profile/01915208411019621104noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post-87331190708419691002013-06-19T23:07:53.644+01:002013-06-19T23:07:53.644+01:00I think they would be proud of all the changes lis...I think they would be proud of all the changes listed above. <br /><br />I think they would recognise fellow progressives of a great Labour Movement. Dean MacKinnon-Thomsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08221192592535723681noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post-16512134982313970472013-06-19T23:04:12.825+01:002013-06-19T23:04:12.825+01:00Mandelson actually said he had no problem with peo...Mandelson actually said he had no problem with people being filthy rich SO LONG AS THEY PAID THEIR FAIR SHARE OF TAXES<br /><br />Get it right. Context matters.Dean MacKinnon-Thomsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08221192592535723681noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post-29809971806540854382013-06-19T22:41:41.227+01:002013-06-19T22:41:41.227+01:00Wee question for Dean. What do you think John Mcle...Wee question for Dean. What do you think John Mclean, James Connolly and Jimmy Reid, three of Scotland's greatest socialist sons, would make of the present day Labour Party?Will Chttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08483189321512803312noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post-39038511440189206842013-06-19T22:33:44.598+01:002013-06-19T22:33:44.598+01:00Dean
I think you have forgotten some of the other...Dean<br /><br />I think you have forgotten some of the other things Nu Labour did for the poor lads in the east end of the city of Glasgow.<br /><br />Destroyed private pensions.<br />Abolished the 10p tax rate.<br />Increased prescription charges every year they were in power.<br />Increased VAT.<br />Introduced the "bedroom tax"<br />Appointed ATOS to harass the sick and the disabled.<br />Increased the community charge.<br /><br />You should be proud of Labour, the millionaires party who according to Mandelson have "no problem with people being filthy rich" The present Labour party have never even met a socialist, never mind even knowing what the word means. Dubbiesidehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14351210091827242674noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post-50313470478831695042013-06-19T22:10:07.381+01:002013-06-19T22:10:07.381+01:00To label the entire Labour Party and her activists...To label the entire Labour Party and her activists as Blarites is unfair. As unfair as the shocking abuse the poor lad got.<br /><br />I applaud anyone taking an interest in politics. And clearly the desire to expand equality and fair play<br /><br />But I really MUST challenge anyone so disreputable as to rewrite history! Labour historically was most definitely the party of the working man. I still think it is, but I accept Blairism occurred making it an open discussion in the present.<br /><br />But you want to know what Labour has done for the poor lads in the east end of my fair city of Glasgow recently? Tonnes:<br /><br />1. Education maintenance allowance<br />2. Minimum wage<br />3. Signed up to European Human Rights Convention<br />4. devolution<br />5. repealed section 28 #this is very personally important for me btw #<br />6. introduced anti-hate speech laws<br />7. brought church and community leaders together, helping the fight against sectarianism (which the SNP have ignored until being shamed into action)<br />8. Proportional Representation in Holyrood and in Scottish local authority elections - making sure every vote counts<br />9. abolished most hereditary members of the house of lords<br />10. working tax credits<br />11. paternity leave <br />12. reduction of of children growing up in poverty from 3.4 millions in 1997 to 2.7millions by 2010*<br /><br />(*http://blogs.channel4.com/factcheck/did-child-poverty-go-up-under-labour/3807)<br /><br />I remain entirely convinced of my party continuing ability and commitment to promoting equality, social democracy, fairness and social justice.<br /><br />Enough of this pathetic attempt to rewrite history. And btw, all those were just from 1997.<br /><br />Prior to that we:<br /><br />13. legalised homosexuality<br />14. abolished the death penalty<br />15. legalised abortions<br /><br />And more besides. I am proud of Labour, the party of organised working class people. Dean MacKinnon-Thomsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08221192592535723681noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post-90172574054548870202013-06-19T19:51:22.244+01:002013-06-19T19:51:22.244+01:00Aye, well you'd have though Labour might have ...Aye, well you'd have though Labour might have grasped that Jutie.<br /><br />Clearly though, anyone who criticises St Tony of Money and War is fair game for a bit of snobbishness.<br /><br />Daft thing is that Liam is probably worth 20 of these Blair lovers. At least he guy thinks for himself.<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post-91842874091419540872013-06-19T16:54:41.054+01:002013-06-19T16:54:41.054+01:00Spot on tris. I have friends from all backgrounds,...Spot on tris. I have friends from all backgrounds, including a few from English Public Schools who i tease all the time about speaking with bools in their mooths.:-)It's about who you are as a person, not how you dress or what accent your parents gave you.Jutemanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00666473582054210936noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post-66652817761112384452013-06-19T16:26:35.586+01:002013-06-19T16:26:35.586+01:00That's a fair comment Pa. I hadn't thought...That's a fair comment Pa. I hadn't thought about the comparison.<br /><br />I guess in the case of the girl, she was ill-informed to the point of total ignorance. She could even have been a yes plant, if they did that kind of thing. She was worried that Scotland independent of England would want to charge for education, when the only people who stand up for free education (and the people who have guaranteed it in the current situation) are the independence parties... and the parties who would keep us together, would happily charge people £9,000 per annum, and rising.<br /><br />The interesting thing is that questions have to be submitted in advance, and are chosen by the production team. I wonder why they chose to allow that question through when it was so clearly based on utter ignorance of the situation as it stands.<br /><br />Liam, on the other hand, seems very politically aware and sharp as a pin, regardless of what he wore to the broadcast.<br /><br />For some people what you think, what you say, and how you act, is more important that what you wear. I'm with them. <br /><br />I thought that Labour supporters were much more likely to think like that, than the position-conscious, class ridden Tory set, who get into a terrible fankle about whether white tie or black tie is the thing, and whether tiaras should be worn.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post-18048445421935983842013-06-19T12:23:25.535+01:002013-06-19T12:23:25.535+01:00I was going to compare this to Rev Stu's piece...I was going to compare this to Rev Stu's piece on the lass that asked the question about education on QT but I realise, its not the same thing at all.<br /><br />Yes, some of the comments made about the girl asking the question were harsh - but she was wrong. In this instance, the young chap is quiet right.<br /><br />I think the main difference though is, representatives of Yes Scotland, the SNP, Greens and SSP did not leap on the question and savage her and it in the way Labour (etc) have done with the young guy above.<br /><br />I think that speaks volumes about those leading the debate and level at which they want to have it.<br /><br />The only other thing I'd say is, many adults like to bump their gums about how ill-informed young folk are and that they shouldn't be able to vote because of it. Well, here is a young person who's taken the time to inform himself (correctly IMO) and they try and drag him down for it.<br /><br />Double standards & snobbish hypocrisy. Because that'll win them votes. pa_broon74https://www.blogger.com/profile/01915208411019621104noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post-44453365038477206922013-06-19T10:48:52.705+01:002013-06-19T10:48:52.705+01:00I think to myself...fair enough, if you have an ar...I think to myself...fair enough, if you have an argument against independence, let's hear it.<br /><br />If you worry that we couldn't pay pensions, or that the roads would deteriorate to cattle tracks; if you believe that we would no longer have internet or television and that only the rich would be able to afford petrol, let's hear your worries.<br /><br />We can explain that. We can talk about per capita income, produce figures from respected international organisations. We can prove our case.<br /><br />But come on guys. You're beginning to sound like the Eton/Oxford archetype when you start talking about a lad's accent, or his choice of clothes. We can't give you any kind of argument about accents or sartorial elegance ... nor should we be able to.<br /><br />Seems to me that what he did wrong was suggested that Blair took the country to war and caused hundreds of thousands of deaths on the strength of something that either he knew was a pack of lies, or at least he should have known was a pack of lies.<br /><br />And that he did all that so he could curry favour with the American president of the day, make lots of money and get a congressional medal. <br /><br />And that, as a result, he should stand trial for war crimes.<br /><br />Well...erm he did and he should.<br /><br />I'm pretty sure PP that Liam will have been put in touch with LfI, and I wouldn't wonder that he will have a bright future with them. I hope so.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092475090824666694.post-39622909535499224302013-06-19T10:35:44.852+01:002013-06-19T10:35:44.852+01:00Ah yes... that "wait a minute..." moment...Ah yes... that "wait a minute..." moment, where you suspend belief in what is normal and right!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com